Denmark Facebook sex video: More than 1,000 young people charged

[Teh One Who Knocks]

BBC News


https://i.imgur.com/TTzGjgY.jpg

More than 1,000 young people have been charged by police in Denmark with distributing sexually explicit material.

They are accused of using Facebook Messenger to share indecent video clips of two 15-year-olds having sex.

Police said it could amount to distribution of indecent images of children, as the two people filmed are under 18.

Facebook tipped off the US authorities, who notified police in Denmark.

One thousand and four young people from across the country are facing charges after allegedly circulating the material via the messaging app in autumn last year.

Some suspects are over 18 and were called to police stations to be interviewed.

Suspects under 18 were contacted through their parents.

A Danish police superintendent said the charges come as a warning to young people never to share sex videos.

Anyone found guilty of these charges faces a possible conditional prison sentence of about 20 days.

If found guilty of distributing indecent images of children, they would be listed for ten years on a register of child pornography offenders.

There have been calls in Denmark for more to be done to prevent so-called revenge porn.

[Godfather]

Anyone found guilty of these charges faces a possible conditional prison sentence of about 20 days.

What do you guys think about that? Seems actually quite fair, hopefully teaches a lesson and sends a message.

I wonder if they'd be on some sex offender registry for life though? I'd say given the stigma and potential vigilantism that would accompany it compared to the crime, I'd be pretty firmly opposed.

[DemonGeminiX]

The article said they'd be on a registry for 10 years, if found guilty.

[RBP]

What do you guys think about that? Seems actually quite fair, hopefully teaches a lesson and sends a message.

I wonder if they'd be on some sex offender registry for life though? I'd say given the stigma and potential vigilantism that would accompany it compared to the crime, I'd be pretty firmly opposed.

I'm only okay with it if the two 15-year-olds who produced the child porn are charged as well. Either it's child porn or it's not. It's not logical to only declare it child porn down stream without also prosecuting the ones that originally produced it.

As for the 20 days. What would the sentence be for a 40 year old male in possession of the video? They get that.

[Godfather]

Seems harsh (the second part), I'm surprised to hear that firm a stance.

My take: Tired argument but 15 year old brains are very different from 40 year olds, or even 25 year olds, their frontal cortex is a decade away from being 'fully developed' and leads to all kinds of horrible decisions. I'd feel safe betting most are not in the same category as the "average 40-year-old-man-who-has-teeny-porn", or won't be as adults. It's still a major invasion of privacy and wrong, but their intent and what it likely indicates about their tendencies and safety to society is probably quite a bit different - which I think would weigh heavily on the sentence for the 40-year-old?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Seems harsh (the second part), I'm surprised to hear that firm a stance.

My take: Tired argument but 15 year old brains are very different from 40 year olds, or even 25 year olds, their frontal cortex is a decade away from being 'fully developed' and leads to all kinds of horrible decisions. I'd feel safe betting most are not in the same category as the "average 40-year-old-man-who-has-teeny-porn", or won't be as adults. It's still a major invasion of privacy and wrong, but their intent and what it likely indicates about their tendencies and safety to society is probably quite a bit different - which I think would weigh heavily on the sentence for the 40-year-old?

Are you trying to posit that a 15 year old, in this day and age, doesn't know that it's wrong to have sex and record it for others to see? :-k

[RBP]

Seems harsh (the second part), I'm surprised to hear that firm a stance.

My take: Tired argument but 15 year old brains are very different from 40 year olds, or even 25 year olds, their frontal cortex is a decade away from being 'fully developed' and leads to all kinds of horrible decisions. I'd feel safe betting most are not in the same category as the "average 40-year-old-man-who-has-teeny-porn", or won't be as adults. It's still a major invasion of privacy and wrong, but their intent and what it likely indicates about their tendencies and safety to society is probably quite a bit different - which I think would weigh heavily on the sentence for the 40-year-old?

I'm fine with the equivalent in juvenile court. My point is it has to be treated the same be it 15 or 40. If the judicial process varies based on juvenile verses adult court, then okay. What I am not okay with is treating the producer of child porn as a victim and the possessor of the same child porn as a monster.


Are you trying to posit that a 15 year old, in this day and age, doesn't know that it's wrong to have sex and record it for others to see? :-k

Exactly. Even if they did... so what. We would treat an armed robbery as an armed robbery. Why is this different?

[Godfather]

Are you trying to posit that a 15 year old, in this day and age, doesn't know that it's wrong to have sex and record it for others to see? :-k

No, that's not what I'm getting at, I'm just debating that it's the exact same scenario, but I understand RBP's perspective better now.

I do think it's different because a thousand kids did something that very very few adults would have the terrible judgment to do (perhaps because it's their 'peer' in their eyes?). When 1000 teens have participated, perhaps it's indicative of social issues, and not what I'd probably call a mental issue or sexual tendency with the 40-year old. Hence why I feel it's not the same as a 40-year old who does this.

Again it's a disturbing problem and wrong as I said, but yes I still feel that there is something different about the pathology behind 15 year olds watching/sharing 15 years having sex, than a legal adults committing the same crime. Both are an illegal invasion of privacy, but the latter indicates to me also indicates a potential pedophile. Both need punishment, they still needs to be charged - but not the same punishment or response.

[RBP]

I think it's different because a thousand kids did something that very very few adults would have the terrible judgment to do, perhaps because it's their 'peer' in their eyes. Hence why I feel it's not the same as a 40-year old who does this. It's a problem and wrong as I said, but yes I am saying I still feel that there is something different about it.

I don't see the difference between this and an underage sex tape shared on the internet. In fact, I'd be shocked this very recording isn't floating around. So an adult has it on his or her computer or phone, then what?

You didn't answer the other point. Should the producers of the underage porn also be prosecuted or do you consider them victims?

[Godfather]

I don't see the difference between this and an underage sex tape shared on the internet. In fact, I'd be shocked this very recording isn't floating around. So an adult has it on his or her computer or phone, then what?

You didn't answer the other point. Should the producers of the underage porn also be prosecuted or do you consider them victims?

Part 1: You're almost certainly right that it's out there sadly. Adult has it willfully on their phone? Not just invading privacy, but also I'd suspect them being a pedophile and additional sentencing should be brought - comparing that to the 15 year old kid who's friend's at school sent it to him and he/she passed it along down the chain too - still isn't the same to me... Again, both are serious crimes, the teens have no excuse, but I just don't suspect the latter as being a potential sex predator or continued supporter of the kiddie-porn industry even half as much - so I can't agree when you say 'they get what the 40 year old gets.' I think the sex offender registry was created partly because don't know how to correct sexual predators, like folks caught with hard drives full of this shit. I'm not sure what good adding most of the kids involved here in this story to such a list actually does for the world.

Part 2: I lean towards considering them victims of an invasion of privacy to an extent - but on societal scale, it has to be illegal... but I still qualify this by saying it's not then the same as adult who has made a porn video with/of minors. I come back to my same concern as above: the adult 'producer' of under-age porn is almost undeniably a more dangerous person to society long-term, than two 15 year olds who made a video of themselves and had it stolen - hence, different crime/punishments in my view.

[RBP]

So the same content for all parties. Not the production of child porn when produced, not possession of child porn when possessed by peers, not the distribution of child porn when distributed, but a sex-offender-registry-qualifying possession of child porn when possessed by an adult. Um. Wow. Alrighty then. That's a logical chasm I doubt we can bridge.

I seem to remember a case that used your logic. A father had the images on his phone and went to police to show them the evidence of what was going on, asking them to intervene. He was arrested for possession of child porn and nothing happened to the kids.

We all see a lot of sexual content. Fact is, we all assume what we are looking at is legal. But we don't really always know that. You used the word "willfully". I am unaware of that being a legal standard, and I doubt that would fly in court. Possession is possession, distribution is distribution, production is production.

[Godfather]

You ever feel like we should save up a list of the things we disagree on and then just have a quarterly phonecall :rofl: I feel like I'm getting further from agreeing with you partly out of passive aggression for having to type out responses. :lol:

[RBP]

:lol:

[Hal-9000]

I think it's about time we had a serious, visible punishment for incidents like this.

We've become way too tolerant of nudity and sexual situations to the point where some of it has become an expectation or a norm in children's lives.

15, 25... the age is unimportant in terms of warranting punishment. The core of the matter is sexually explicit material featuring underage people being propagated into the ethersphere.

If we don't get a handle on it and lock it down, pretty soon See Dick and Jane...will become quite another another type of grade school primer that all kids will expect and want to see. :hand:

[RBP]

I think it's about time we had a serious, visible punishment for incidents like this.

We've become way too tolerant of nudity and sexual situations to the point where some of it has become an expectation or a norm in children's lives.

15, 25... the age is unimportant in terms of warranting punishment. The core of the matter is sexually explicit material featuring underage people being propagated into the ethersphere.

If we don't get a handle on it and lock it down, pretty soon See Dick and Jane...will become quite another another type of grade school primer that all kids will expect and want to see. :hand:

I hear ya. I have taken that position for a long time. Until someone gets made an example, it will get worse. The contrast with other offenses is staggering. Kids get suspended for bringing ibuprofin to school. But send your underage vag to half the class and that's just kids being kids.

And heaven forbid that vag shot should land on an adult's phone...

https://i.imgur.com/7fVQOqe.jpg

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I hear ya. I have taken that position for a long time. Until someone gets made an example, it will get worse. The contrast with other offenses is staggering. Kids get suspended for bringing ibuprofin to school. But send your underage vag to half the class and that's just kids being kids.

And heaven forbid that vag shot should land on an adult's phone...

https://i.imgur.com/7fVQOqe.jpg

:facepalm:

I've had the view that minors that make sex tapes (child porn) should be prosecuted the same as adults forever, but I was excoriated by the lot of you back at AS for being an uncompassionate hardass. :shakehead:

[RBP]

:facepalm:

I've had the view that minors that make sex tapes (child porn) should be prosecuted the same as adults forever, but I was excoriated by the lot of you back at AS for being an uncompassionate hardass. :shakehead:

I don't believe I argued with you on that. I agree.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I don't believe I argued with you on that. I agree.

Maybe, maybe not, that was a long time ago and I've slept since then :lol:

[RBP]

Maybe, maybe not, that was a long time ago and I've slept since then :lol:

no means no :x #believeRBP

[Hal-9000]

:facepalm:

I've had the view that minors that make sex tapes (child porn) should be prosecuted the same as adults forever, but I was excoriated by the lot of you back at AS for being an uncompassionate hardass. :shakehead:

I've never excoriated anyone in my life [-(

I heard it was painful without lube and I don't roll that way.

[Godfather]

This is interesting:


Danish Penal Code chapter 32 §235 paragraph 3:

"Stk. 3. Bestemmelsen i stk. 2 omfatter ikke besiddelse af fotografier, film el.lign. af en person, der er fyldt 15 år, hvis den pågældende samtykker i besiddelsen."

Translates to something in the direction of: Paragraph 3. The laws put down in Paragraph 2 (The section that makes possession and seeking out child porn illegal) does not include possession of video or similar of a person, which have passed the age of 15 years, if the person it concerns consent to the possession.

[RBP]

This is interesting:

Interesting, yes. Completely fucked up, also yes.

Thanks for the data point.

[Godfather]

Seems rational to me :shrug:

[RBP]

Seems rational to me :shrug:

So 15 year olds can do porn if they consent. Okay. Knock one out dude.

[Godfather]

They weren't 'doing porn' here though, the law is it's ok for private use between individuals of a similar age from my interpretation.

Personally, if my 15 year old GF and I exchanged 'sexts' I don't think we're 'producing child porn' or criminals. That's it. Thankfully I didn't grow up in that era, it's a dumb decision, but I still feel that way.

If they're culpable of an unacceptable crime as much at 15 as they are at 18 in sharing stolen private videos (if I'm understanding your previous live of argument correctly), then how is it logical they can't make an acceptable adult decision to send private texts to lover at the same age? You can't call them adults when you want to punish them, but children when you feel they're incapable of making that choice. If it gets leaked or created with the intention of distribution that's a crime, agreed, but the creation of these photos/videos for the sole intention of private conversations doesn't seem criminal to me.

[RBP]

They can't 'do porn', the law is it's for private use between 15 year olds.

Personally, if my 15 year old GF and I exchanged 'sexts' I don't think we're 'producing child porn' or criminals. That's it. Thankfully I didn't grow up in that era, it's a dumb decision, but I still feel that way.

Dude. If that same "sext" is on my phone, is it child porn?

[Godfather]

Dude. If that same "sext" is on my phone, is it child porn?

If you're in a relationship with a 15 year old as a 45 year old? Yes.
If it was stolen from two 15 year olds who made it for one another and had it leaked? Yes.
If it was made by a 45 year old with a 15 year old victim? Yes (perhaps with some rare exception? - you posted that interesting case of the man who had it to report to police)
If two 15 year olds made it for the purpose of distributing their underage sex? Both the possessor and producer are involved in child porn in that case aren't they.


But if you're 15, and it was made for you by your 15 year old girlfriend/boyfriend? No, not in my opinion, and especially not if you're going to hold 15 year olds to the same standards as adults when they do things like 'armed robbery' as was a prior example..

[RBP]

If you're in a relationship with a 15 year old as a 45 year old? Yes.
If it was stolen from two 15 year olds who made it for one another and had it leaked? Yes.
If two 15 year olds made it for the purposes of distributing their underage sex? Yes.
If it was made by a 45 year old with a 15 year old victim? Yes (perhaps with some exception? - you posted that interesting case of the man who had it to report to police - prosecution can't always be black & white)

If you're 15 too and it was made for you by your girlfriend/boyfriend? No.

Dude. When you wake up, read what you wrote. You are suggesting that the same material should be subjected to myriad legal standards depending on the consumer. Huh. So child porn is not necessarily child porn depending on who has it. Again. Wow.

[Godfather]

Dude. When you wake up, read what you wrote. You are suggesting that the same material should be subjected to myriad legal standards depending on the consumer. Huh. So child porn is not necessarily child porn depending on who has it. Again. Wow.

Why the condescension in your last few words there? :lol:


When a 15 year old has sex consensual with a 15 year old, it's not a crime or statutory rape. If they film that same act for themselves, despite how dumb it may be, I don't feel they're guilty of making child porn.

I've talked at this at length with others outside this site, I don't feel alone in this stance, so I will be nowhere near changing my opinion on the morning. I guess I'll leave my stance at firmly at that.

[RBP]

Why the condescension in your last few words there? :lol:


When a 15 year old has sex consensual with a 15 year old, it's not a crime or statutory rape. When they film that same act for themselves I don't feel they're guilty of making child porn.

I've talked at this at length with others outside this site, I don't feel alone in this stance, so I will be nowhere near changing my opinion on the morning. I guess I'll leave my stance at firmly at that.

Hey man, that fine with me. As long as the same standard applies down stream. But it doesn't, does it...

[Hal-9000]

I can see both GF and RBP's points.

I lean towards RBP's side because the vid is a concrete representation of the act that can be manipulated. Even if the video intent is only an exchange between the two parties involved, the law should encompass all people committing the act. It is under any lens, two underage people having sex and being filmed.

Here's a semi-related question - If the same two 15 year olds have sex without filming the act, is it wrong? We tend to say no morally if the age gap isn't too broad. But can two people deemed as underage actually give consent to themselves?

In my view there is and should be more latitude given to committing the act itself, as opposed to filming it... because the potential exchange/movement of the video is now viable. They have in effect created a product that is against the law, no matter what the original intent.

Compared to just boinking, which is only a memory when not filmed.

[RBP]

Curiosity question for the parents here. If your underage kid's sex pictures and video were floating around, would you be more pissed at the people who distributed it or at your kid for making it? Where would you assign blame?