Florida high school under lockdown after reports of shooter, victims, police say

[Teh One Who Knocks]

FOX News


https://i.imgur.com/tylSNTA.jpg

A Florida high school is under lockdown and police are on the scene after reports of shots fired and potential victims, officials said Wednesday.

The scene, according to a tweet from the Broward Sheriff's Office, was still active and the shooter is still at large.
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Dispatch at the sheriff's office confirmed the school was on lockdown and police were on location.

Coral Springs Police asked the public to avoid the area of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, saying it was an active scene.
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Authorities also said students and teachers should remain barricaded in the school until they could be reached by police.

According to WSVN, the Margate Fire Rescue team described the scene as a mass casualty incident, which reportedly means at least 20 people were injured.

The is a developing story; please check back for updates.

[redred]

Is it sad that I don't find school shootings in your country shocking no more

[Hal-9000]

Apparently it's a really large high school. Just heard an interview with a student who is already at home. He said the buildings are numbered and he estimated there are at least 10.

I'd like to have a discussion about process after this thing is contained. No arguments about why, more about how they handle the incident. The kid interviewed above said he had to run to Walmart after being let out of the school, and then on to home. Shouldn't they try to contain the victims on buses or in another area, rather than let them run home?

Scary thought - The shooter could wear two pairs of clothes and possibly blend in with the crowd on the way out. Unlikely probably, but still a possibility.

Just saw a pic taken and posted from a student sitting under a desk. Modern media..

[deebakes]

17 dead last i heard, so sad :(

[DemonGeminiX]

They're saying the kid got in trouble a lot, that he was expelled from school due to threatening other students and other behavioral problems, and that he was troubled for years. Didn't somebody along the way think to, oh I don't know, have the fucking kid psychologically evaluated?!? Or did they just figure that somebody else would do something about it? This is how it always is. "It's not my problem. Let somebody else deal with it." Nobody ever takes the fucking initiative! Nobody can stand pointing and saying, "Hey, I don't want to be the bad guy, but I think there's something wrong here. Maybe he should see a professional?" Nobody can stand getting their fucking hands dirty.

[RBP]

They're saying the kid got in trouble a lot, that he was expelled from school due to threatening other students and other behavioral problems, and that he was troubled for years. Didn't somebody along the way think to, oh I don't know, have the fucking kid psychologically evaluated?!? Or did they just figure that somebody else would do something about it? This is how it always is. "It's not my problem. Let somebody else deal with it." Nobody ever takes the fucking initiative! Nobody can stand pointing and saying, "Hey, I don't want to be the bad guy, but I think there's something wrong here. Maybe he should see a professional?" Nobody can stand getting their fucking hands dirty.

What? No. Clearly guns are the problem. :hand:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Scary thought - The shooter could wear two pairs of clothes and possibly blend in with the crowd on the way out. Unlikely probably, but still a possibility.

Didn't wear extra clothes, but he did try and run out with the other students. See article below this post.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Ryan Gaydos | Fox News


https://i.imgur.com/2NPJAY8.jpg

Nikolas Cruz tried to blend in with panicked students fleeing the Florida high school he had just opened fire in, killing 17, authorities said late Wednesday.

Cruz concealed himself in the crowd and was seen running out of the school with hundreds of terrified students, authorities said.

Authorities said Cruz was later taken into custody “without incident” by Coconut Creek police in a Coral Springs neighborhood, located just a few miles from the high school itself.

The Broward County Sheriff’s Office said Cruz, 19, was identified as the only possible gunman after looking at security footage from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

Police said Cruz was taken to the hospital because he “exhibited labored breathing.” He was later seen being escorted into Broward Sheriff's headquarters in a medical robe.

The carnage, however, had already taken its toll.

Noah Parness, 17, told the Associated Press that the fire alarm went off for the second time in the day at around 2:30 p.m. Parness said students were calmly filing out of the school when he suddenly heard several pops.

"Everyone was kind of just standing there calm, and then we saw a bunch of teachers running down the stairway, and then everybody shifted and broke into a sprint," Parness said. "I hopped a fence."

An unidentified student described the gruesome scene in an interview with Fox News.

"The police came through the hallway to get us and in the hallway, I saw a big pile of blood, like, kind of smeared as if they were dragged away, and I saw two girls probably dead in the hallway," she said. "And then, coming down the stairs, there was some more blood and outside the building there was another guy – I think it was a teacher – who was, pretty sure was dead."

The motive behind the massacre was not immediately clear. Lawmakers and officials suggested the shooting may have been planned.

Sheriff Scott Israel, from Broward County, said at an evening news conference that the suspect carried an AR-15 rifle and had “countless magazines.” He did not specify how many rounds were fired.

"It's catastrophic. There really are no words," Israel said.

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., told Fox News that Cruz was wearing a gas mask and may have had smoke bombs during the rampage.

Nelson said in a separate interview with CNN that Cruz used the fire alarm “so the kids would come pouring out of the classrooms into the hall.”

After speaking with authorities, Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla, said in a tweet “it is clear attack was designed & executed to maximize loss of life.”

Cruz’s classmates had described him as a “loner” and “that weird kid that you see at school.”

https://i.imgur.com/4n9jM6J.jpg

Officials described Cruz as a volatile teenager whose strange behavior had caused others to end friendships with him, particularly after a fight that led to his expulsion.

Cruz was also described as having an “obsessive interest in weapons,” according to the Miami Herald. One teacher said Cruz was banned from entering campus with a backpack, the newspaper reported.

"All he would talk about is guns, knives and hunting,” Joshua Charo, 16, a former classmate, told the Herald. “I can’t say I was shocked. From past experiences, he seemed like the kind of kid who would do something like this.”

Another unidentified student told WJXT-TV that “everyone predicted” the shooting.

“Honestly, a lot of people were saying it was gonna be him,” the unnamed student told the news station. He said kids joked around that the student would be the one to “shoot up the school.”

An Instagram page apparently belonging to Cruz showed pictures of guns and knives. Israel said some of Cruz's social media posts were "very, very disturbing."

The Parkland shooting is the nation’s deadliest school shooting since Newtown.

Students and families will be able to see grief counselors at the Pines Trials Park Recreation Center, Coral Springs Gymnasium and Coral Springs Center for Performing Arts starting Thursday at 8 a.m., Broward County Schools officials said.

Counselors will also be made available for students and staff at Westglades Middle School and the Parkland Library, officials said.

https://i.imgur.com/12JpzRl.jpg

Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School will be closed Thursday and Friday.

Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi said her office would pay for the funeral expenses of the victims.

"We will pay for the funeral expenses of these poor victims," Bondi said. "We will take care of it."
[I]
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[RBP]

Reporting says the weapon was legally purchased (background check passed), owned by the shooter, and was stored in a gun safe at the trailer park where he was staying.

[Muddy]

Nicholas De Jesus Cruz is his full name.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:


Here’s what we know about Cruz now:


Cruz’s mother died in November. His father had died years earlier.
He and his brother were adopted.
He went to live with a friend’s family after his mother’s death.
Cruz had been expelled from school
He had posted “disturbing” material on social media, according to Israel.
Buzzfeed is reporting that the FBI was warned about a YouTube user named Nikolas Cruz after he posted in September that he was “going to be a professional school shooter.
The Miami Herald reports that a teacher at the school said Cruz had been identified as a potential threat to fellow students in the past. Math teacher Jim Gard told the Herald, “There were problems with him last year threatening students, and I guess he was asked to leave campus.”
The shooting started outside the building, then Cruz went into the school and continued shooting
Authorities think he walked out with other students after the shootings
He had “multiple” magazines of ammunition
He had an AR-15 weapon
He had a gas mask and smoke grenades
He pulled the fire alarm as he went into the school and then began shooting
He was taken into custody off-campus

[Hal-9000]

"Buzzfeed is reporting that the FBI was warned about a YouTube user named Nikolas Cruz after he posted in September that he was “going to be a professional school shooter."

I just read the rumor that the FBI were aware of him since September.

Of course we're not going to hear much on that front...

[Hal-9000]

Reporting says the weapon was legally purchased (background check passed), owned by the shooter, and was stored in a gun safe at the trailer park where he was staying.

So this kid stole the weapon? Apologies, I haven't read much on the logistics yet.

If the gun owner was responsible and followed every rule he could, I guess in a way he becomes another victim. Now he has to live with the knowledge that POS used his gun.

[Hal-9000]

A strange coincidence is that they just had a fire drill in the morning. He pulled the alarm and some students thought it was another drill.

[Hal-9000]

Jesus there seemed to be warning signs in all aspects of his life. If 16 year old kids were thinking he's most likely to commit this sort of crime, there's a big problem with how we read the signals.

[Muddy]

Jesus there seemed to be warning signs in all aspects of his life. If 16 year old kids were thinking he's most likely to commit this sort of crime, there's a big problem with how we read the signals.

So what do you do? We aren't the pre-cogs.. We had fbd on here talking about chooting Oblahblah, should we have called the fbi ?

[Hal-9000]

So what do you do? We aren't the pre-cogs.. We had fbd on here talking about chooting Oblahblah, should we have called the fbi ?

Apparently the FBI were aware of this guy already, which plays into my comment.

There was a recent story here in the news section where someone suspected another person was going to commit this sort of crime, because of a statement they overheard.

Person called the authorities and they arrested the potential shooter.

Two things happened...the person who suspected something was wrong did more than say - What can we do?....and the authorities used the information and acted upon it.


Just from a small amount of reading for this incident, there was more than enough warning signs.

[Muddy]

Just from a small amount of reading for this incident, there was more than enough warning signs.

Warning signs to do what?

[Hal-9000]

http://www.tehfalloutshelter.com/showthread.php?95175-Mother-charged-after-14-year-old-son-allegedly-stockpiled-weapons-for-school-shooting

[Hal-9000]

Warning signs to do what?

Seriously man...did you read the article?

To do what...the kids in the school elected him as most likely to go on a school shooting rampage. That may be one indicator....he posted comments online that gained the FBI's attention and his Instagram account was full of comments and pictures that are considered precursors to crimes like this.

[Muddy]

http://www.tehfalloutshelter.com/showthread.php?95175-Mother-charged-after-14-year-old-son-allegedly-stockpiled-weapons-for-school-shooting

Gotcha.. I'm not sure of the legality of that.. But It's good that something was done..

[Hal-9000]

Gotcha.. I'm not sure of the legality of that.. But It's good that something was done..

If you can't do something that's considered preventative, then you will keep cleaning up these messes after the fact. And there are too many incidents of this nature.

Not directed at you...but if people would stop whining about their rights for a moment and accept that law enforcement may have to act on suspicion, rather than act after the action is committed, we might be able to lessen instances.

I know what you're saying...thought crimes are a delicate subject and I'm sure if FBD was here I'd get a diatribe about how police shouldn't have the right to search houses, cars, school lockers, backpacks...because that's not the American Way! What next...will they have the right to actually prosecute based on intent only??? Oh my God!!!

If you prevent one event like this from happening, you've saved 20 lives. It's worth it in my most humble opinion.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

So what do you do? We aren't the pre-cogs.. We had fbd on here talking about chooting Oblahblah, should we have called the fbi ?

If the FBI is informed that someone is posting that they are "going to be a professional school shooter" on their social media accounts, and he appears to have an obsession with weapons and a teacher said that the kid was identified as being a potential danger to other students, then law enforcement needs to step in at some point. This kid was obviously mentally ill and needed to be, at the very least, under psychiatric treatment, and at worst, needed to be locked up, either in a psychiatric hospital or in jail.

If you saw something extremely suspicious going on in your neighborhood, reported it to authorities because you were afraid of something bad happening, and then they did nothing and later on something does happen and it was ignored even though you reported it, wouldn't you be pissed?

[Muddy]

If you can't do something that's considered preventative, then you will keep cleaning up these messes after the fact. And there are too many incidents of this nature.

Not directed at you...but if people would stop whining about their rights for a moment and accept that law enforcement may have to act on suspicion, rather than act after the action is committed, we might be able to lessen instances.

I know what you're saying...thought crimes are a delicate subject and I'm sure if FBD was here I'd get a diatribe about how police shouldn't have the right to search houses, cars, school lockers, backpacks...because that's not the American Way! What next...will they have the right to actually prosecute based on intent only??? Oh my God!!!

If you prevent one event like this from happening, you've saved 20 lives. It's worth it in my most humble opinion.

I agree in theory.. But the reality is (especially with the corruption we have down here) giving the police the right to kick down your door because some SJW was offended by your posts really opens the door to giving them a license to do anything. It would be like living in Nazi Germany.. YOUR PAPERS PLEEEESE.. We have to have our rights down here.. We fought a war for them (the rights) to get out from under the English.

[Muddy]

If the FBI is informed that someone is posting that they are "going to be a professional school shooter" on their social media accounts, and he appears to have an obsession with weapons and a teacher said that the kid was identified as being a potential danger to other students, then law enforcement needs to step in at some point. This kid was obviously mentally ill and needed to be, at the very least, under psychiatric treatment, and at worst, needed to be locked up, either in a psychiatric hospital or in jail.

If you saw something extremely suspicious going on in your neighborhood, reported it to authorities because you were afraid of something bad happening, and then they did nothing and later on something does happen and it was ignored even though you reported it, wouldn't you be pissed?

I agree... But my point is "I'm not sure there is a whole lot they can really do".. You cant force mental treatments and you cant jail people unless direct threats were made.. I've had a few run ins with the law against people I've perceived as a threat and it all boiled down to "We cant do anything but talk to them if a crime has not been committed".

[Hal-9000]

If the FBI is informed that someone is posting that they are "going to be a professional school shooter" on their social media accounts, and he appears to have an obsession with weapons and a teacher said that the kid was identified as being a potential danger to other students, then law enforcement needs to step in at some point. This kid was obviously mentally ill and needed to be, at the very least, under psychiatric treatment, and at worst, needed to be locked up, either in a psychiatric hospital or in jail.

If you saw something extremely suspicious going on in your neighborhood, reported it to authorities because you were afraid of something bad happening, and then they did nothing and later on something does happen and it was ignored even though you reported it, wouldn't you be pissed?

I agree. I'm thinking of the gun owner too right now. By RBP's account this guy did everything the law deems you need to, to legitimately and safely own a gun. Who knows, we may find out there was some oversight that allowed the kid to get the weapon. I hope that's not the case. But now the gun owner has to go through life with the thought that his AR15 killed a bunch of kids.

Bunch of stuff on Imgur saying - We shouldn't talk about the shooter! We should talk about the heroes. I think we need to talk about both. If one fact comes out that can somehow make it more difficult for future shooters to be successful, then let's have the conversation. Just relenting and saying - He was mentally ill, there's nothing we could have done anyways is defeatist and short sighted.

If it takes rounding up some kids/people based on suspicion and holding them for 48 hours, then do it. Cops can search your car upon suspicion of being impaired because of your driving habits, and can enter your house upon suspicion of a felony being committed, why not at least ask the question when some of these wingnuts start bragging on social media about possibly killing people?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I agree... But my point is "I'm not sure there is a whole lot they can really do".. You cant force mental treatments and you cant jail people unless direct threats were made.. I've had a few run ins with the law against people I've perceived as a threat and it all boiled down to "We cant do anything but talk to them if a crime has not been committed".

But you can hold someone involuntarily for a mental health exam. I believe every state has some form of the 72 hour involuntary mental health hold. And with the warning signs that were given about him (personally, I would consider "going to be a professional school shooter" a direct threat), I would say that would qualify and then the authorities could have explored deeper to see if he was a real threat or not. Now, there's no guarantee that he couldn't have faked his way through it, but at least the ball would have been rolling and he definitely would be someone to watch closer.

I do understand your point, but with the (seemingly) ever increasing mental health problem in this country and people not getting treatment, when it comes to things like this, I'm okay with giving law enforcement just a little more leeway as long as there are procedures in place to prevent abuse.

[Muddy]

Having a teen out of high school and one in middle school I will say that there is soooo much questionable shit that these little fuckers put on social media twitter etc that it really would be hard to manage all the leads.. imho..

[Hal-9000]

I agree in theory.. But the reality is (especially with the corruption we have down here) giving the police the right to kick down your door because some SJW was offended by your posts really opens the door to giving them a license to do anything. It would be like living in Nazi Germany.. YOUR PAPERS PLEEEESE.. We have to have our rights down here.. We fought a war for them (the rights) to get out from under the English.

I'm not sure 'some SJW being offended by your posts' and what happened here are the same thing. I've heard this argument/defense, or fear about change in rights and the discussion gets muddied (heh heh..) when you ask - Will giving homicide investigators latitude in a potential attempted murder scenario lead to loss of your critical rights? Rights vs Potential loss of life...something in that sensitive balance has to change.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Florida school shooting February 14 2018 . Snapchat footage from inside classroom

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3a_1518656040

[Hal-9000]

Having a teen out of high school and one in middle school I will say that there is soooo much questionable shit that these little fuckers put on social media twitter etc that it really would be hard to manage all the leads.. imho..

There's one commonality that seems to be more prevalent in recent years. These murderers tend to write out their intentions and/or manifestos. Agreed with all of the social media blather, it's difficult to differentiate a depressed kid looking for attention or wanting to shock, as opposed to a person who is actually planning a shooting. I mean ffs, it seems that every other teen kid these days is talking about how hard life is and not wanting to continue.

I read about Kevin Underwood. He kidnapped and murdered a 10 year old who lived in his apartment complex. Up to that point, he was merely depressed and lonely. No history of violence or subversive behavior. It was around 2006, so social media wasn't the monster it is today. A detective said if someone had seen his journal, and read some of his daily writings, they completely outlined his descent into madness and his plan to kill someone.

Not saying we should invade everyone's privacy, my point is a new habit or indicator has emerged, where most of these shooters will have the need to write about and publicize their intent. It's tied in with social media and our new mindset. Same way I feel the urge to comment and let my opinion be known here about space stories or sex scandals. There's an explanation in science, and it essentially says - We can't help but express our opinion in public because of conditioning. These freaks apparently can fall prey to expressing themselves in a similar fashion, and that's where we can start looking for clues to potential future crimes.

[Hal-9000]

Florida school shooting February 14 2018 . Snapchat footage from inside classroom

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d3a_1518656040

Jesus Christ that's horrifying. As much as some feel media shouldn't be used like this...I feel real time posts can help law enforcement determine where the shooter is and give them a better idea what's actually going on in terms of weapons and number of people involved.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

It was chilling to watch/listen to

[Muddy]

My kid was in a lock down once and sent me some vids from the class.. She was pretty helpless just sitting there in that room waiting for the mother fucker to come calling. (no one was shot, but they thought the guy was in the school or or campus)

[Hal-9000]

My kid was in a lock down once and sent me some vids from the class.. She was pretty helpless just sitting there in that room waiting for the mother fucker to come calling. (no one was shot, but they thought the guy was in the school or or campus)

Man...can't imagine. I think I must have a phobia not ever having experienced anything remotely like that...

I just read about Amy Bishop. She was a prof at the University of Alabama and one day during a staff meeting, she stood up and shot every one on her side of the table in the head. Three dead, three wounded. The gun misfired or ran out of bullets and the remaining staff in the room somehow pushed her out and barred the door.

There's a lot more to her story (I think she was nuts from an early age), but at one point she was a respected and intelligent scientist who worked in microbiology. I believe her and her hubby invented something in that field a couple of years before the shooting.

All that to say - I'm sorry your kid had to go through that shit because it's one of my biggest fears.

[Muddy]

http://www.nbc12.com/story/24386184/glen-allen-update

[Hal-9000]

http://www.nbc12.com/story/24386184/glen-allen-update

So they got the kid, correct? Do you know what he was eventually charged with? This is where I step up and say - I don't care if he was 16, his intent was to commit the adult crime of murder.

I'm sincerely sorry your child had to go through that (and you guys as parents).

[Muddy]

So they got the kid, correct? Do you know what he was eventually charged with? This is where I step up and say - I don't care if he was 16, his intent was to commit the adult crime of murder.

I'm sincerely sorry your child had to go through that (and you guys as parents).

Yeah they got him, but I dont know what happened after the fact.. I really think it was some emotional heartbroke kid talking way too much shit. Kids do some really dumb stuff.. Unfortunately there's no point of return once you pull a trigger. Thanks for your well wishes, but really she's OK.. It's the climate we live in unfortunately.

[Hal-9000]

We gotta hit another thread...this shit isn't good on a B-day

[PorkChopSandwiches]

https://i.imgur.com/UGQeZEe.jpg

[redred]

Until they start having flash backs and kill the kids themselves

[DemonGeminiX]

Fuck off, Red.

[RBP]

Hug it out, boys.

[redred]

Home schooling would be better , no big groups of children

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Elizabeth Zwirz | Fox News


https://i.imgur.com/PnJOFx6.jpg

Nikolas Cruz, who confessed to being the gunman in Wednesday's deadly Florida school shooting, according to his arrest affidavit, claimed to authorities that voices in his head told him how to carry out the ambush that left at least 17 people dead, ABC News reported.

Law enforcement sources referred to the alleged voices as "demons," according to the outlet, and said Cruz, 19, claimed that they told him what he needed to do to launch the deadly assault.

And between 2011 and 2016, authorities responded to 39 calls to Cruz's home in Parkland, WSVN reported. The issues varied "from domestic disturbance to child/elder abuse," the outlet said.
964327510199750656
Details of Cruz's troubled past began to emerge in the hours after the massacre. In accounts from classmates, Cruz was described as a "weird kid" and a "loner," with one person adding that he was kicked out of school for getting into a fight with his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend.

Prior to the shooting incident, the suspect was living in a mobile home with the family of a friend. Both of Cruz's parents, who adopted him, are deceased, according to the Sun Sentinel. His mother reportedly passed away in November.

Cruz confessed to using an AR-15 rifle to shoot “students that he saw in the hallways” at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School “and on school grounds,” his arrest affidavit said. He also reportedly told authorities that he brought “additional loaded magazines” that he stashed in a backpack.

After arriving at the school in an Uber car on Wednesday, Cruz then entered the location, officials said. He pulled his weapon from a black, soft case and began firing bullets into several classrooms throughout the building, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said during a Thursday news conference.

Authorities received several 911 calls shortly before 2:30 p.m. reporting a shooting at the Parkland, Florida high school, the affidavit said, and as officers responded to the scene, a description of the shooter was sent out across police radios.

A witness who spoke to authorities said he recognized the “former troubled student” and alerted a co-worker “that Cruz was walking purposefully” towards one of the buildings, the affidavit said. Moments later, shots rang out and a “code red” was initiated.

In the midst of the chaos, Cruz confessed to ditching the weapons and ammunition in an attempt to “blend into the crowd,” the affidavit said. He fled the scene with others “fearing for their lives,” the sheriff said, and “was able to elude arriving officers,” according to the affidavit.

“Once the crime scene was secured the discarded AR15 rifle and vest with magazines was found in areas consistent with Cruz’s version of events,” authorities said in the document.

Cruz was apprehended by a Coconut Springs officer before 4 p.m. in Coral Springs and was taken into custody “without incident,” the sheriff said. Officials traced the rifle back to Cruz, who bought it legally in 2017, ATF Special Agent in Charge Peter Forcelli said Thursday.

The 19-year-old was booked into Broward County Jail on Thursday. He was later ordered held without bond and charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder.

“The victim’s deaths were caused by the criminal act of Nikolas Cruz and the killings done with a premeditated design,” the affidavit said.

https://i.imgur.com/QfdjBKv.jpg

After the hearing, defense attorney Melisa McNeill described her client as fully aware of what was going on but said he was also a “broken human being.” She added that Cruz was sad and remorseful for his actions and she was fully aware of the shooting’s impact on the community.

Jordan Jereb, the leader of the Republic of Florida, a white nationalist militia, previously told The Associated Press that Cruz was a group member and participated in paramilitary drills in Tallahassee. But Leon County Sheriff spokesman Lt. Grady Jordan told the outlet that his office had “very solid” information on the group and “there’s no known ties” between Cruz and the group “that we have that we can connect.”

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

[RBP]

39 calls and no psychiatric evaluation? Unless he's setting up a defense, he's likely schizophrenic.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

It's ridiculous how preventable this was if all these myriad of issues hadn't just been ignored.

[RBP]

Sure sounds that way. The system failed this kid.

[Muddy]

It's like I was saying earlier.. There is so much shit out there, with so many kids, a lot of it gets ignored until they up the ante..

[RBP]

It's like I was saying earlier.. There is so much shit out there, with so many kids, a lot of it gets ignored until they up the ante..

What's your gut feel on this? It sure seems like the frequency of kids needing mental health support has gotten awfully high. From my perspective it started with the explosion of ADHD diagnosis and kids getting medicated for that, another for Autism spectrum, and just seemed to escalate from there. I'll have to see if I can find some data, but it feels out of proportion.

As it relates to this, when every kid has some mental health or behavioral issues, the real cases that need intervention are more likely to get lost in the shuffle.

[Muddy]

What's your gut feel on this? It sure seems like the frequency of kids needing mental health support has gotten awfully high. From my perspective it started with the explosion of ADHD diagnosis and kids getting medicated for that, another for Autism spectrum, and just seemed to escalate from there. I'll have to see if I can find some data, but it feels out of proportion.

As it relates to this, when every kid has some mental health or behavioral issues, the real cases that need intervention are more likely to get lost in the shuffle.

Large country
Poor home life
Social Media
1st person shooter video games
Easy access to weapons

The recipe for failure.

I can expound on these if you want, but that's it simplistically from me.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

What's your gut feel on this? It sure seems like the frequency of kids needing mental health support has gotten awfully high. From my perspective it started with the explosion of ADHD diagnosis and kids getting medicated for that, another for Autism spectrum, and just seemed to escalate from there. I'll have to see if I can find some data, but it feels out of proportion.

As it relates to this, when every kid has some mental health or behavioral issues, the real cases that need intervention are more likely to get lost in the shuffle.

IMHO things like autism have become "trendy" for lack of a better word. It seems like way too many kids allegedly have autism and it seems like a lot of parents (especially women) have done 'self diagnoses' of their kid and it's almost a sense of pride when they tell you they know their kid is "on the spectrum". Heard it many times first hand and it's almost always self diagnosed.

Plus, it doesn't help with all these kids nowadays claiming 'anxiety' or 'depression' all the time, almost always because of the most minor of things in their lives. Like you said, this causes the kids that truly need the help and actually have some kind of mental issue to get lost in the shuffle.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Large country
Poor home life
Social Media
1st person shooter video games
Easy access to weapons

The recipe for failure.

I can expound on these if you want, but that's it simplistically from me.

The only thing on that list I didn't have growing up was social media and it never made me want to kill anyone.

[Muddy]

The only thing on that list I didn't have growing up was social media and it never made me want to kill anyone.

We aren't all wired the same as you, stimuli affects everyone differently.

[RBP]

IMHO things like autism have become "trendy" for lack of a better word. It seems like way too many kids allegedly have autism and it seems like a lot of parents (especially women) have done 'self diagnoses' of their kid and it's almost a sense of pride when they tell you they know their kid is "on the spectrum". Heard it many times first hand and it's almost always self diagnosed.

Plus, it doesn't help with all these kids nowadays claiming 'anxiety' or 'depression' all the time, almost always because of the most minor of things in their lives. Like you said, this causes the kids that truly need the help and actually have some kind of mental issue to get lost in the shuffle.

And add to that social isolation through electronic devices. GF and I started a conversation about this in a different thread, but the lack of socialization may have reached a tipping point - ask the Japanese. "Socially awkward" and "social anxiety" are also overused and self-diagnosed. You could fix that by positive socialization. This argument has been applied to porn, where people lose emotional and social connections to people and sex (depersonalize) from experiencing it primarily alone and through electronic means.

[RBP]

Large country
Poor home life
Social Media
1st person shooter video games
Easy access to weapons

The recipe for failure.

I can expound on these if you want, but that's it simplistically from me.

I get where you're coming from. It's the balance (in my mind) between those things and healthy productive self-care and socialization.

[Muddy]

Social media is a plague on our children.

[Hal-9000]

And add to that social isolation through electronic devices. GF and I started a conversation about this in a different thread, but the lack of socialization may have reached a tipping point - ask the Japanese. "Socially awkward" and "social anxiety" are also overused and self-diagnosed. You could fix that by positive socialization. This argument has been applied to porn, where people lose emotional and social connections to people and sex (depersonalize) from experiencing it primarily alone and through electronic means.

I do a ton of reading about serial killers, mass murderers and spree killers. One commonality is loneliness. Social media plays heavily into this and I think that with people/kids who are already disturbed, our 'new' way of life creates an environment of isolation, even as the users are interacting with groups of people online daily. I think you need to have balance between actual and online, and in some of the recent situations with school shooters, these are kids who exist only in the online world.

Just reading Reddit, there's a huge undercurrent of depression and thinly veiled self effacing humor saying - I never go out, I never interact in person, I'm jealous of people that do...

[Hal-9000]

We aren't all wired the same as you, stimuli affects everyone differently.

Yep. I'm one of the biggest pacifists you'll meet and I've been playing Call of Duty games since they came out. I love sniper games and if you ask GF, I used to have a love for a game called Battlefield Vietnam, which was something we would do online.

I do see how first person shooters can make gunplay seem ordinary and routine however. But take it from an expert...while the games may de-mystify shooting and guns in general, they will not help a person become a better shooter. When I hear that part of the argument saying how this game helped Jimmy practice shooting and become good at it, it's just not true. Keyboard vs real life is not even comparable.

[RBP]

I do a ton of reading about serial killers, mass murderers and spree killers. One commonality is loneliness. Social media plays heavily into this and I think that with people/kids who are already disturbed, our 'new' way of life creates an environment of isolation, even as the users are interacting with groups of people online daily. I think you need to have balance between actual and online, and in some of the recent situations with school shooters, these are kids who exist only in the online world.

Just reading Reddit, there's a huge undercurrent of depression and thinly veiled self effacing humor saying - I never go out, I never interact in person, I'm jealous of people that do...

GF turned me on to this subject in Japan. They call it hikikomori.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/proof/2018/february/japan-hikikomori-isolation-society/

[Hal-9000]

It's ridiculous how preventable this was if all these myriad of issues hadn't just been ignored.

When someone posts online that he's going to do the same thing as Charles Whitman did at the University of Texas and nothing is done in the way of a possible investigation, there's a problem.

Look at the recent companion story to this one...kid says he's going to commit Florida number 2 and you bet the authorities got on him in a hurry.

This is what I was alluding to yesterday. We have to start addressing the precursors and if kids are making 'jokes' or attention grabbing posts, fuck em. Go and take them to task and make them accept responsibility for their online claims. If they investigate and have something like a 50-1 success rate, where 50 kids were just being morons and one kid was actually thinking about committing a serious act, then they've still prevented at least one murder.

[Hal-9000]

GF turned me on to this subject in Japan. They call it hikikomori.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/proof/2018/february/japan-hikikomori-isolation-society/

I'm going through extreme isolation right now and I feel the effects. Yes I go out shopping and make jokes etc, but recently I've had weeks and months go by without personal contact and it does fuck with your head. (mine anyways..) I don't work, I don't go to bars or movies and spend most of time doing little projects at home and feeling sorry for myself. Thankfully it's only depression and I never get the urge to hurt other people. A scary realization is that the longer I do this, the longer I don't want to reintegrate with the public.

[RBP]

When someone posts online that he's going to do the same thing as Charles Whitman did at the University of Texas and nothing is done in the way of a possible investigation, there's a problem.

Look at the recent companion story to this one...kid says he's going to commit Florida number 2 and you bet the authorities got on him in a hurry.

This is what I was alluding to yesterday. We have to start addressing the precursors and if kids are making 'jokes' or attention grabbing posts, fuck em. Go and take them to task and make them accept responsibility for their online claims. If they investigate and have something like a 50-1 success rate, where 50 kids were just being morons and one kid was actually thinking about committing a serious act, then they've still prevented at least one murder.

That's a tough subject, speech v jokes v threats... but I don't disagree that there needs to be more attention paid. Maybe a few stern reminders that terrorist threats can be prosecuted as felonies would make a difference.

I think the volume of bullshit on the internet makes it hard to cover it all.

[Muddy]

Also the immature mind just doesn't grasp the repercussions their actions can have.

[Hal-9000]

That's a tough subject, speech v jokes v threats... but I don't disagree that there needs to be more attention paid. Maybe a few stern reminders that terrorist threats can be prosecuted as felonies would make a difference.

I think the volume of bullshit on the internet makes it hard to cover it all.

Yes touching on what Muddy said about social media, it encourages an element that walks a razor thin line between free speech and outright 'freedom' to make threats.

It lessens personal responsibility for things said and just think of how many times you've seen someone say they were only joking, or they need to walk that back a little, or that they weren't being serious when they said that. Bullshit. They got caught in something and their initial post wasn't a joke or a trolling effort. They just got some backlash for it and need a way to wipe the egg off their face.

[Pony]

Social media is a plague on our children.

Honestly I think it starts much earlier than that, When our generation were kids we learned from an early age that there were consequences for our actions. I really think because of todays "style" of parenting a large amount of children are being raised without the necessary tools to get through life. Stuff we take for granted like empathy, learning to cope with stuff we don't like, stable/loving relationships (family), have largely been replaced with the "my little angel is perfect" style of raising children.

If more parents raised their kids from an early age with basic coping skills, no amount of video games or social media would "undo" that. Sure when they reached teen years they would still rebel, but with the proper tools to deal with controversy and the knowledge of what the result of their actions would be they are less likely to go to the extremes we are seeing today.

[Pony]

I'm going through extreme isolation right now and I feel the effects. Yes I go out shopping and make jokes etc, but recently I've had weeks and months go by without personal contact and it does fuck with your head. (mine anyways..) I don't work, I don't go to bars or movies and spend most of time doing little projects at home and feeling sorry for myself. Thankfully it's only depression and I never get the urge to hurt other people. A scary realization is that the longer I do this, the longer I don't want to reintegrate with the public.

You're telling me! I think my closest relationship right now is with the woman that works in the McDonalds drive thru. :lol: I've only got a few more weeks before I have to force myself out of it and get back to work in a VERY social environment. It's tough going from one extreme to the other.

[Hal-9000]

You're telling me! I think my closest relationship right now is with the woman that works in the McDonalds drive thru. :lol: I've only got a few more weeks before I have to force myself out of it and get back to work in a VERY social environment. It's tough going from one extreme to the other.

Mine is with my dentist and sometimes I feel like I've had enough of life. Used to work in a very busy environment for decades, lots of interactions and conversations daily...then come home to a full house and had various girlfriends. Seemed I could never be truly alone until around midnight. Careful what you wish for I guess..

This is turning maudlin, my bad. In our case Pony, we recognize the framework and know that it's wrong and it needs to change. Affecting change is sometimes simple...you gotta do it yourself.

Sorry to take this offtrack.

[RBP]

You're telling me! I think my closest relationship right now is with the woman that works in the McDonalds drive thru. :lol: I've only got a few more weeks before I have to force myself out of it and get back to work in a VERY social environment. It's tough going from one extreme to the other.

I often go all day with no interaction other than "thank you" or "have a nice day". I get home and babble at the fiance for a bit before she goes to bed, then isolate on the internet. I agree, it's maddening. :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I'm around people all the time :sad2:

[Hal-9000]

I'm around people all the time :sad2:

That's okay..they dislike you as much as you dislike them :hug: :tup:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

ABC News


The FBI says proper protocol was not followed in following up on a tip about, Nikolas Cruz, the suspect in the a deadly mass shooting at a Florida high school on Wednesday in which 17 people were killed.

A person close to Cruz called an FBI tip line on Jan. 5 with information about Cruz's desire to kill people, erratic behavior, disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting, according to an FBI statement.

“We have determined that these protocols were not followed for the information received by the PAL on January 5. The information was not provided to the Miami field office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time,” the FBI said in a statement Friday.

FBI director Christopher Wray said the agency is still investigating and regrets any additional pain the information could cause to victims.

“I am committed to getting to the bottom of what happened in this particular matter, as well as reviewing our processes for responding to information that we receive from the public. It’s up to all Americans to be vigilant, and when members of the public contact us with concerns, we must act properly and quickly," Wray said in the statement.

In a statement, Florida Gov. Rick Scott called on the FBI director to resign. “The FBI’s failure to take action against this killer is unacceptable," he said. “... We constantly promote ‘see something, say something,’ and a courageous person did just that to the FBI. And the FBI failed to act. ‘See something, say something’ is an incredibly important tool and people must have confidence in the follow through from law enforcement. The FBI director needs to resign.” Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., also slammed the FBI, saying the agency "utterly failed the families of 17 innocent souls."

“The fact that the FBI is investigating this failure is not enough," Rubio said in a statement. "Both the House and Senate need to immediately initiate their own investigations into the FBI’s protocols for ensuring tips from the public about potential killers are followed through."

In the wake of the news, Attorney General Jeff Sessions ordered a review of the process at the Justice Department and FBI "to ensure that we reach the highest level of prompt and effective response to indications of potential violence that come to us."

“We will make this a top priority. It has never been more important to encourage every person in every community to spot the warning signs and alert law enforcement," he said in a statement. Do not assume someone else will step up -- all of us must be vigilant. Our children's lives depend on it.”

Hannah Carbocci, a 17-year-old junior, told ABC affiliate WPLG that she was in a first-floor classroom when shots rang out.

Carbocci said the gunman "shot through the door and the glass shattered. I was under my teacher's desk so I was really hoping that I would be OK. Not knowing if my classmates would be OK or not really scared me. " "We had four to six people injured in our classroom, and two of them have been confirmed that they passed away," she said. "It was a horrible experience, the sounds that you hear, the sights that you see. When you’re walking out of the building you see people in the hallways laying there dead that you know, that you went to classes with, and you went to school with, and you saw them every single day.

"Once I was out of the building I knew I was OK, but I kicked my shoes off and I ran as fast as I could," she said. "My dad picked me up on the side of the road. He works for the Broward Sheriff's Office. I broke down in tears when I saw him."

Cruz was arrested after the Valentine's Day massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and has been charged with 17 counts of premeditated murder.

Cruz -- a former student there -- slipped away from the campus by blending in with other students who were trying to escape, police said. After a tense manhunt, he was apprehended.

He briefly appeared in court Thursday and was held on no bond.

Brody Speno, a neighbor who spent nearly a decade living a few doors down from Cruz, told ABC News that the suspected shooter was "aggressive, crazy weird, psycho."

Speno said he remembers one day when Cruz suddenly "cornered a squirrel and was pegging it with rocks trying to kill it."

Another neighbor, Malcolm Roxburgh, said Cruz would attack pets.

He called Cruz a "strange character" who always stood out from other teenagers in the neighborhood.

Roxburgh's most vivid memory of Cruz is his roaming the streets. Even in South Florida's sweltering heat, Roxburgh said, Cruz occasionally walked around in a camouflage jacket.

Public defender Melisa McNeill, who appeared with Cruz in court Thursday, called him a "broken child."

"My children they go to school in this community and I feel horrible for these families," McNeill said, adding, "and Mr. Cruz feels that pain."

[Hal-9000]

This is good. I hope the story gets big exposure. The authorities need to be held accountable as well as helping encourage people to call in tips.


This though from the defender... McNeill said, adding, "and Mr. Cruz feels that pain." How can you even start to express that statement about someone who just randomly shot and killed handfuls of people?



I wonder how spree shooters fare in the prison hierarchy?

[RBP]

Wow, that tip line thing is stunning.

[DemonGeminiX]

The system has failed everyone. The social fabric of that community failed this kid and his victims. The sins start at the top with the feds and goes all the way down to the local community. There are so many ways this could have been prevented over the course of years, if only some people took a minute to give a shit about something other than themselves.

[RBP]

https://i.imgur.com/Nv3iiPB.jpg?1

:rip:

[Hal-9000]

There was some Filipino (?) student who held the door open for other students as they run out and he died too :(

[Muddy]

Explain please rbp

[RBP]

Explain please rbp

Coach who died shielding kids in the Florida shooting.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/football-coach-florida-school-shooting-trnd/index.html

Football coach Aaron Feis threw himself in front of students as bullets hailed down Wednesday at his alma mater, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

It would become perhaps the final act undertaken by the assistant coach and security guard, who suffered a gunshot wound and died after he was rushed into surgery.

"He died the same way he lived -- he put himself second," Lehtio said. "He was a very kind soul, a very nice man. He died a hero."

[The Monk]

https://i.imgur.com/UGQeZEe.jpg

Sure - that'll solve the problems.....

[The Monk]

They're saying the kid got in trouble a lot, that he was expelled from school due to threatening other students and other behavioral problems, and that he was troubled for years. Didn't somebody along the way think to, oh I don't know, have the fucking kid psychologically evaluated?!? Or did they just figure that somebody else would do something about it? This is how it always is. "It's not my problem. Let somebody else deal with it." Nobody ever takes the fucking initiative! Nobody can stand pointing and saying, "Hey, I don't want to be the bad guy, but I think there's something wrong here. Maybe he should see a professional?" Nobody can stand getting their fucking hands dirty.

All true!

It is about time America acknowledged that there is mental illness to be looked at as well as gun control.

[RBP]

https://i.imgur.com/7qZZhMN.jpg

[Muddy]

Coach who died shielding kids in the Florida shooting.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/football-coach-florida-school-shooting-trnd/index.html

Football coach Aaron Feis threw himself in front of students as bullets hailed down Wednesday at his alma mater, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

It would become perhaps the final act undertaken by the assistant coach and security guard, who suffered a gunshot wound and died after he was rushed into surgery.

"He died the same way he lived -- he put himself second," Lehtio said. "He was a very kind soul, a very nice man. He died a hero."

And all those kids welcoming him are victims from over the years?

[RBP]

And all those kids welcoming him are victims from over the years?

Perhaps, I just took at as children welcoming him to heaven.

[Hal-9000]

Coach who died shielding kids in the Florida shooting.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/football-coach-florida-school-shooting-trnd/index.html

Football coach Aaron Feis threw himself in front of students as bullets hailed down Wednesday at his alma mater, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

It would become perhaps the final act undertaken by the assistant coach and security guard, who suffered a gunshot wound and died after he was rushed into surgery.

"He died the same way he lived -- he put himself second," Lehtio said. "He was a very kind soul, a very nice man. He died a hero."

Feis escorted the kid I heard interviewed (who ran to Walmart, then home as the shooting was still going on) off campus and then went back to help other kids.

He knew the situation from the outset, had a chance to leave and ended up going back. Not sure I would have that kind of courage.

[Hal-9000]

https://i.imgur.com/UGQeZEe.jpg


Sure - that'll solve the problems.....

I think it would be a good step and would help the problem. In a situation where some aspects can't or won't be changed, this measure may make kids think twice before attempting the act.

When someone walks into a room with a gun and intends to hurt a bunch of unarmed civilians, that person is a bully and a coward. That same person wouldn't dare try to take their rage out on the same group of people by attempting to kill them using only their bare hands. Bully, complete coward...every civilian shooter falls into the category.

By letting potential bullies know that there isn't a clear path to the art room, or the history class...and there is someone present who probably has more skill than you and a similar weapon at the ready, would likely lessen the attempts or at worst, force the potential shooter into changing their plan.

It's a step and that's 1000x better than saying - Oh well, another shooting. Can't do much about them..

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Sure - that'll solve the problems.....

I'm sure it will make it worse :banghead:

[Hal-9000]

Hey, you convinced one lefty :thumbsup:...the proposed action does a lot for both the kids and teacher's peace of mind, as well as helping the veterans themselves.

The only shortcoming I can see is if Little Jimmy decides to yuk it up with his water pistol and the onhand school guard sees a threat..