Are boys 'broken'? Another mass shooting renews debate on toxic masculinity

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Alia E. Dastagir, USA TODAY


https://i.imgur.com/35CSlkQm.jpg

After 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz was accused of gunning down 17 people at a Florida high school last week, comedian Michael Ian Black started a thread on Twitter that sparked a vitriolic debate about the role of gender in gun violence. It began with the tweet, "Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken."

Black's tweet has been liked nearly 65,000 times. In an interview with NPR on Sunday, he elaborated.

"I think it means that there is something going on with American men that is giving them the permission and space to commit violence," he said. "And one of the main things we focus on correctly is guns and mental health, but I think deeper than that is a problem, a crisis in masculinity."

Many people on Twitter praised Black for his take.
965621285568073728
963976850304356353
Critics accused of him of overgeneralizing, and of demonizing boys and men.
964008022426161152
964084107553771520
The problem Black identifies is one feminists have been talking about for decades. It's called toxic masculinity, the stereotypical sense of masculinity that embodies behaviors, such as denying help or emotions, which psychologists and sociologists say are harmful to men and to society. It's the things in our culture — from toys given to movies watched to messages parents consciously and unconsciously send — that tells boys and men "being a real man" means repressing feelings and consistently demonstrating strength and dominance.

"We often talk about gender in terms of women ... getting the short end of the stick. ... Well, masculinity isn't easy either," Jennifer Carlson, a sociology professor at the University of Arizona who studies gun politics and gender, told USA TODAY after the mass shooting in Las Vegas last October. "That's not your ticket to the good life. It isn't easy to be a man in the United States. Demands put on men — whether it's to be the protector, to be the provider, to respond to situations in certain ways, to prove yourself as a man — end up being not just outwardly destructive but also inwardly destructive."

A 2017 study in the Journal of Adolescent Health found many norms around gender, what's expected of boys and girls, become entrenched in adolescence and have negative impacts that carry into adulthood.

Among consequences the study noted when boys conform to gender stereotypes:


Engaging in physical violence to a much greater extent than girls
Dying more frequently from unintentional injuries
Being more prone to substance abuse and suicide
Having a shorter life expectancy than women

Data shows gun violence is disproportionately a male problem. Of the 97 mass shootings in which three or more victims died since 1982, only three were committed by women (one of those being the San Bernardino attack in which a man also participated), according to a database from the liberal-leaning news outlet Mother Jones. Men also accounted for 86% of gun deaths in the United States, according to an analysis by the non-partisan non-profit Kaiser Family Foundation.

Experts say culture plays a big role in why men are so drawn to guns and why they're so much more likely to die by them.

After the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, the National Science Foundation asked researchers to look at what is known and unknown about youth violence. Published in 2016, the report found masculinity is a factor that cannot be ignored.

"Young men may be particularly sensitive to cultural influences on masculinity in adolescence when they are physically maturing, particularly in the context of popular media that glorify violence and domination of others," researchers wrote. "The least physically developed young boys may lose out in pecking orders that value height, big muscles, athletic prowess, and mature looks. Guns could become a great equalizer in this tournament of recognition."

In a Q&A published this January in the journal Signs, masculinity expert Michael Kimmel said the term "toxic masculinity" is now so loaded he chooses to frame the problem for men somewhat differently.

"There's going to be a time in your life, if there hasn't already, when you are going to be asked to betray your own values, your own ethics, your own idea of what it means to be a good man, in order to prove to others that you’re a real man," said Kimmel, founder and director of the Center for the Study of Men and Masculinities at Stony Brook University.

In his interview with NPR, Black was asked what he thinks healthy masculinity looks like.

"I don't know. I mean, I really don't," he said. "I know that I only started feeling comfortable in my own skin as an adult man in my 40s when I stopped trying so hard to — and this is going to sound counterintuitive — but be a guy."

[Hal-9000]

Great...now girls are going to step up to show that anything boys can do, girls can do better...

[RBP]

The only think worth your time in that article is the Christina Hoff Sommers link. She's been a rational female voice for years and was the author of "The War on Boys", which is you haven't read it, it is dated now but still extremely eye opening.

http://time.com/2974/masculinity-is-more-than-a-mask/

Masculinity Is More Than a Mask

Are school shooters and mass murderers born out of an aggressive emphasis on masculinity in our society? The trailer for filmmaker and feminist activist Jennifer Siebel Newsom’s new documentary, The Mask You Live In, would have us think so.

The recently released trailer has attracted 1 million views on YouTube. It argues that American boys are captive to a rigid and harmful social code of masculinity. From the earliest age, they are told to “Be a man!” “Don’t cry!” “Stop with the emotion!” and “Man up!” This “guy code” suppresses their humanity, excites their drive for dominance and renders many of them dangerous. The trailer features adolescent men describing their isolation, despair and thoughts of suicide, artfully interspersed with terrifying images of school shooters and mass murderers.

I admire Newsom for using her considerable talent to advocate for boys. But I worry that she is less concerned with helping boys than with re-engineering their masculinity according to specifications from some out-of-date gender-studies textbook. The trailer is suffused with males-are-toxic ideology but shows little appreciation for how boys’ nature can be distinctively good. The Mask You Live In is scheduled to be released later this year. Let’s hope there is still time for edits.

Here are a few suggestions:

1. Recognize that masculinity is more than a “mask”
The title and content of the film suggest that masculinity is a cultural creation. That is only marginally true. A lot of typical boy behavior, such as rough-and-tumble play, risk taking and fascination with gadgets rather than dolls, appears to have a basis in biology. Researchers have found, for example, that female monkeys play with dolls much more than their brothers, who prefer toy cars and trucks. Are male monkeys captive to a “guy code”? A recent study on sex differences by researchers from the University of Turin, in Italy, and the University of Manchester, in England, confirms what most of us see with our eyes: with some exceptions, women tend to be more sensitive, esthetic, sentimental, intuitive and tender-minded, while men tend to be more utilitarian, objective, unsentimental and tough-minded. We do not yet fully understand the biological underpinnings of these universal tendencies, but that is no reason to deny they exist.

2. Appreciate the difference between healthy and pathological masculinity
Some boys are hypermasculine or pathologically masculine. They are bullies and worse, establishing their male bona fides through destruction, mayhem and preying on the weak and vulnerable. But most boys evince healthy masculinity. They may enjoy mayhem in games and sports, but in life they like to build, not destroy. Their instinct is not to exploit vulnerable people but to protect and defend them. Of course, all boys need guidance and discipline from the adults in their lives. I agree with Newsom that telling a boy to “man up” can be harsh and degrading. But teaching him to “be a gentleman” is another matter. It’s a tried-and-true way to bring out the best in males.

3. Acknowledge the virtue of male reserve
Newsom’s film tells us that boys in our society don’t feel safe talking about emotions and personal struggles. To do so violates the boy code and subjects them to shame and ridicule. The driving message of Newsom’s film is that we must free our young men to become emotionally expressive. Of course, parents should do all they can to improve their sons’ emotional literacy. But parents (as well as wives and girlfriends) should keep in mind that male reticence has its advantages.

A 2012 a study surveyed and observed nearly 2,000 children and adolescents and found that boys and girls have very different expectations about the value of problem talk. Girls were more likely to report that personal disclosure made them feel cared for and understood. Boys, overall, found it to be a tedious waste of time — and “weird.” Contrary to what we learn from Newsom’s film, boys did not find personal disclosure embarrassing or unmasculine. According to the study’s author, Amanda Rose: “Boys’ responses suggest they just don’t see talking about problems to be a particularly useful activity” (emphasis added).

But in girls, excessive problem talk is in fact linked to anxiety and depression. Male stoicism may be adaptive and protective. If you want a boy to be more forthcoming, Rose has good advice for parents and counselors: “You will have to persuade him that it serves a practical purpose.” Engage his male instinct for problem solving.

4. Make clear that most boys are psychologically sound and resilient
The Mask You Live In gives the impression that the average adolescent boy is severely depressed. In fact, clinical depression is rare among boys. (National Institute of Mental Health data show that the prevalence of depression among among 13- to 17-year-old boys is 4.3%; among girls of the same age group, it is 12.4%.)

Newsom’s film reports that every day in the U.S. three or more boys take their own lives. Suicide is, indeed, primarily a male disease. Among 10- to 24-year-olds, 81% of suicide victims are male. In 2010, a total of 3,951 young men died by their own hands. Male suicide is a much neglected scourge, and Newsom’s efforts to raise awareness are admirable. Still, in a nation of nearly 33 million boys, that means that the percentage of boys who commit suicide is close to 0.01%. Each of these deaths is a tragedy. But it helps no one to pretend that suicide is typical male behavior.

Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) does appear to be an epidemic among boys, but the implications of that are ambiguous. It could be that as a society, we are pathologizing age-old male rambunctiousness. Some experts have suggested that ADHD would be significantly reduced if we allowed boys more unstructured recess and occasions for spirited rough-and-tumble play. Yet, in Newsom’s documentary, scenes of boys engaging in mock fisticuffs, playfully head-butting and chasing one another around the playground are offered as evidence of how young males are driven to “prove” their aggressive masculinity.

5. Include specific ideas on how to help boys with depression or thoughts of suicide
Some of the most promising, innovative ideas are coming out of Australia. In 2006, a report in the Medical Journal of Australia argued for a paradigm shift in the nation’s mental-health system. Rather than blaming “masculinity” or trying to “re-educate” men away from their reluctance to seek help, the author asks, “Why not provide health services that better meet the needs of men?”

The Australians are now developing male-specific mental-health protocols. A 2012 Australian study, for example, found that large majorities of young men associate the term mental health with insanity and straightjackets. Mental fitness seems to go over better with men. The Australians recently launched a mental-fitness app for guys. The focus is on acquiring “skills,” developing “strengths” and achieving “self-mastery.” But doesn’t that reinforce traditional narratives of masculinity? It certainly does — that’s the point, and the key to its promise.

The energy, competitiveness and corporal daring of normal males are responsible for much good in the world. No one denies that boys’ aggressive and risk-taking tendencies must be socialized and channeled toward constructive ends. But the de–Tom Sawyering of the American boy should not be anyone’s agenda. I am sure it is not Newsom’s. Yet her film in progress suggests otherwise.

[Hal-9000]

The only think worth your time in that article is the Christina Hoff Sommers link. She's been a rational female voice for years and was the author of "The War on Boys", which is you haven't read it, it is dated now but still extremely eye opening.

http://time.com/2974/masculinity-is-more-than-a-mask/

Masculinity Is More Than a Mask

Are school shooters and mass murderers born out of an aggressive emphasis on masculinity in our society? The trailer for filmmaker and feminist activist Jennifer Siebel Newsom’s new documentary, The Mask You Live In, would have us think so.

The recently released trailer has attracted 1 million views on YouTube. It argues that American boys are captive to a rigid and harmful social code of masculinity. From the earliest age, they are told to “Be a man!” “Don’t cry!” “Stop with the emotion!” and “Man up!” This “guy code” suppresses their humanity, excites their drive for dominance and renders many of them dangerous. The trailer features adolescent men describing their isolation, despair and thoughts of suicide, artfully interspersed with terrifying images of school shooters and mass murderers.

I admire Newsom for using her considerable talent to advocate for boys. But I worry that she is less concerned with helping boys than with re-engineering their masculinity according to specifications from some out-of-date gender-studies textbook. The trailer is suffused with males-are-toxic ideology but shows little appreciation for how boys’ nature can be distinctively good. The Mask You Live In is scheduled to be released later this year. Let’s hope there is still time for edits.

Here are a few suggestions:

1. Recognize that masculinity is more than a “mask”
The title and content of the film suggest that masculinity is a cultural creation. That is only marginally true. A lot of typical boy behavior, such as rough-and-tumble play, risk taking and fascination with gadgets rather than dolls, appears to have a basis in biology. Researchers have found, for example, that female monkeys play with dolls much more than their brothers, who prefer toy cars and trucks. Are male monkeys captive to a “guy code”? A recent study on sex differences by researchers from the University of Turin, in Italy, and the University of Manchester, in England, confirms what most of us see with our eyes: with some exceptions, women tend to be more sensitive, esthetic, sentimental, intuitive and tender-minded, while men tend to be more utilitarian, objective, unsentimental and tough-minded. We do not yet fully understand the biological underpinnings of these universal tendencies, but that is no reason to deny they exist.

2. Appreciate the difference between healthy and pathological masculinity
Some boys are hypermasculine or pathologically masculine. They are bullies and worse, establishing their male bona fides through destruction, mayhem and preying on the weak and vulnerable. But most boys evince healthy masculinity. They may enjoy mayhem in games and sports, but in life they like to build, not destroy. Their instinct is not to exploit vulnerable people but to protect and defend them. Of course, all boys need guidance and discipline from the adults in their lives. I agree with Newsom that telling a boy to “man up” can be harsh and degrading. But teaching him to “be a gentleman” is another matter. It’s a tried-and-true way to bring out the best in males.

3. Acknowledge the virtue of male reserve
Newsom’s film tells us that boys in our society don’t feel safe talking about emotions and personal struggles. To do so violates the boy code and subjects them to shame and ridicule. The driving message of Newsom’s film is that we must free our young men to become emotionally expressive. Of course, parents should do all they can to improve their sons’ emotional literacy. But parents (as well as wives and girlfriends) should keep in mind that male reticence has its advantages.

A 2012 a study surveyed and observed nearly 2,000 children and adolescents and found that boys and girls have very different expectations about the value of problem talk. Girls were more likely to report that personal disclosure made them feel cared for and understood. Boys, overall, found it to be a tedious waste of time — and “weird.” Contrary to what we learn from Newsom’s film, boys did not find personal disclosure embarrassing or unmasculine. According to the study’s author, Amanda Rose: “Boys’ responses suggest they just don’t see talking about problems to be a particularly useful activity” (emphasis added).

But in girls, excessive problem talk is in fact linked to anxiety and depression. Male stoicism may be adaptive and protective. If you want a boy to be more forthcoming, Rose has good advice for parents and counselors: “You will have to persuade him that it serves a practical purpose.” Engage his male instinct for problem solving.

4. Make clear that most boys are psychologically sound and resilient
The Mask You Live In gives the impression that the average adolescent boy is severely depressed. In fact, clinical depression is rare among boys. (National Institute of Mental Health data show that the prevalence of depression among among 13- to 17-year-old boys is 4.3%; among girls of the same age group, it is 12.4%.)

Newsom’s film reports that every day in the U.S. three or more boys take their own lives. Suicide is, indeed, primarily a male disease. Among 10- to 24-year-olds, 81% of suicide victims are male. In 2010, a total of 3,951 young men died by their own hands. Male suicide is a much neglected scourge, and Newsom’s efforts to raise awareness are admirable. Still, in a nation of nearly 33 million boys, that means that the percentage of boys who commit suicide is close to 0.01%. Each of these deaths is a tragedy. But it helps no one to pretend that suicide is typical male behavior.

Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) does appear to be an epidemic among boys, but the implications of that are ambiguous. It could be that as a society, we are pathologizing age-old male rambunctiousness. Some experts have suggested that ADHD would be significantly reduced if we allowed boys more unstructured recess and occasions for spirited rough-and-tumble play. Yet, in Newsom’s documentary, scenes of boys engaging in mock fisticuffs, playfully head-butting and chasing one another around the playground are offered as evidence of how young males are driven to “prove” their aggressive masculinity.

5. Include specific ideas on how to help boys with depression or thoughts of suicide
Some of the most promising, innovative ideas are coming out of Australia. In 2006, a report in the Medical Journal of Australia argued for a paradigm shift in the nation’s mental-health system. Rather than blaming “masculinity” or trying to “re-educate” men away from their reluctance to seek help, the author asks, “Why not provide health services that better meet the needs of men?”

The Australians are now developing male-specific mental-health protocols. A 2012 Australian study, for example, found that large majorities of young men associate the term mental health with insanity and straightjackets. Mental fitness seems to go over better with men. The Australians recently launched a mental-fitness app for guys. The focus is on acquiring “skills,” developing “strengths” and achieving “self-mastery.” But doesn’t that reinforce traditional narratives of masculinity? It certainly does — that’s the point, and the key to its promise.

The energy, competitiveness and corporal daring of normal males are responsible for much good in the world. No one denies that boys’ aggressive and risk-taking tendencies must be socialized and channeled toward constructive ends. But the de–Tom Sawyering of the American boy should not be anyone’s agenda. I am sure it is not Newsom’s. Yet her film in progress suggests otherwise.

Right in point one she cites the monkey study about females playing with dolls, males playing with cars and trucks ...exposing the nature vs nurture aspect to dispel a myth.

:thumbsup: I think I like this girl..

[RBP]

Right in point one she cites the monkey study about females playing with dolls, males playing with cars and trucks ...exposing the nature vs nurture aspect to dispel a myth.

:thumbsup: I think I like this girl..

It's a far better rabbit hole than most. You'll feel better after reading some of her stuff and watching some of her talks.

Atlantic article for The War on Boys. 2000! https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/05/the-war-against-boys/304659/

18 years ago, my friends, we've known and allowed it to get to this point. That also tells me how long I have been fighting this fight, because that book was early in my research and writing.

[Hal-9000]

A peek behind the curtain..... :wank:

So what prompted you to research and write about the treatment of men as opposed to women?
There's an aspect that is related to punishment it seems...

If it's too personal, no worries. I'll just go back to making fat jokes about you and disrespecting your Americanage :tup:

[RBP]

A peek behind the curtain..... :wank:

So what prompted you to research and write about the treatment of men as opposed to women?
There's an aspect that is related to punishment it seems...

If it's too personal, no worries. I'll just go back to making fat jokes about you and disrespecting your Americanage :tup:

Not entirely sure, I was researching a lot during that period. But I am sure being multiple years into an abusive marriage played a part.

Edit: After thinking about that, I think I was starting to challenge social myths, i.e. stories used to justify social causes, which are often false or twisted narratives. Pay gap, Matthew Shepard, Len Bias... there are a lot of them. And many of the feminist stories didn't match with the facts as I saw them, even back then... and they still don't, but now they just make shit up. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

Not entirely sure, I was researching a lot during that period. But I am sure being multiple years into an abusive marriage played a part.

Edit: After thinking about that, I think I was starting to challenge social myths, i.e. stories used to justify social causes, which are often false or twisted narratives. Pay gap, Matthew Shepard, Len Bias... there are a lot of them. And many of the feminist stories didn't match with the facts as I saw them, even back then... and they still don't, but now they just make shit up. :lol:

So you're like a home made superhero who saw a need? Cool...

*don't forget the XL cape :tup:



:dance:

[RBP]

So you're like a home made superhero who saw a need? Cool...

*don't forget the XL cape :tup:

:dance:

Dude, I'm 6'4" and down to like 240 tops. I'm a big dude. Fuck off. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

I'm seriously sorry to hear your marriage went that way. If it's any consolation, you come off as a person who could take a fuckton of abuse, without crossing a line giving it back.

[Hal-9000]

... down to like 240 tops.

Screamed Elmer the Unhappy Baby Elephant when they took his extra helping of Mac n Cheese away :(

[Hal-9000]

https://i.imgur.com/cDwaaiZ.gif


:lol:

[RBP]

:facepalm:

[Hal-9000]

I'm back up over 200lbs (202) so I can't go around giving people shit about it.

And I'm not 6'4"

I'm only 4' 2'' in heels :sad:

[Hal-9000]

I had to blow off some steam after all of the gun related talk n posts...

For some reason I've developed a weird phobia about getting shot. One day I'll relate a dream I had about getting shot...because hearing about people's idiotic dreams is never weird online :lol:

[RBP]

I had to blow off some steam after all of the gun related talk n posts...

For some reason I've developed a weird phobia about getting shot. One day I'll relate a dream I had about getting shot...because hearing about people's idiotic dreams is never weird online :lol:

It might all those chicks drawing their weapons in your thread. :lol:

[Hal-9000]

It might all those chicks drawing their weapons in your thread. :lol:

YES the hidden penis handguns!

dem broads don't have permits to conceal and carry...I blame President Porky :lol:

[Griffin]

Apparently no one remembers why The Boomtown Rats wrote "I Don't Like Mondays".

[DemonGeminiX]

Apparently no one remembers why The Boomtown Rats wrote "I Don't Like Mondays".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)

[Hal-9000]

Apparently no one remembers why The Boomtown Rats wrote "I Don't Like Mondays".

I've brought that story up four times in these threads.