Surgeon demands ICBC pay out nearly $1M for wrecked Ferrari

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Josh K. Elliott, CTVNews.ca


https://i.imgur.com/sHPNo7L.jpg

A Vancouver neurosurgeon who crashed his Ferrari into a lamp post in 2012 is demanding British Columbia’s public auto insurer cover the full cost of repairs, citing an affront to his "sense of dignity” in a lawsuit over the estimated $982,000 bill.

Dr. Navraj Heran originally wrecked his rare Ferrari F40 in a 2012 collision. The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) offered him $503,000 at the time, but he complained and an arbitrator ruled that the payout ought to be $696,000.

The luxury car ultimately had to be shipped to Toronto for repairs, bringing the ICBC payout up to a total of $790,000. The insurer has covered those costs but Heran says that still is not enough, and is now suing ICBC to cover what he says is the full cost of repairs: an estimated $982,000.

Heran said in his latest notice of civil claim against the agency that it was “unsettling and embarrassing” for him to have the Ferrari absent from his vehicle collection, “which he makes available for public display and appreciation.”

“The show absence of the vehicle is not a matter the plaintiff should have to repeatedly deal with on a public basis,” Heran’s notice of civil claim said.

A judge ruled that the “embarrassment” paragraph in Heran’s claim be struck from his notice of civil claim, calling it “frivolous.” However, the case remains unresolved as the court awaits additional financial estimates from Heran.

The ballooning price tag for Heran’s crash has sparked criticism in the province, where some say luxury car owners are not paying their fair share in insurance premiums. ICBC projects an estimated $1.3 billion operating loss this fiscal year, but critics say that loss could be eased by forcing high-end car owners to pay more each month.

The NDP provincial government has raised taxes on luxury vehicle sales, but not on insurance premiums.

“There should… be some sort of a relationship between the premium paid for these high (end) vehicles and the ones that we pay at a lower level,” Bruce Cran, of the Consumers’ Association of Canada, told CTV Vancouver.

An investigation by CTV Vancouver recently found that the insurance premium on a $700,000 Ferrari is approximately four times the premium paid for a $16,000 Honda Civic, despite the Ferrari being worth more than 40 times the value of the Honda.

B.C. Attorney General David Eby said he’s considering reforms on the current insurance model.

“We all, I think, have concerns about people who cost more to the system that they put in in premiums, and one of those groups is luxury car owners,” Eby told CTV Vancouver on Monday.

Heran declined to speak with CTV Vancouver about the case.

[Muddy]

MBYC

[Goofy]

:wanker:

[Hal-9000]

If the car is worth 40 times more than the average, they should pay higher premiums in case of loss.


I had to fight ICBC when a truck driver hit my car years ago. Guy lived in BC and went 'missing', right up until I had to pretty much threaten ICBC in writing for compensation.

[Godfather]

I dealt with a ICBC a lot the first few years in the industry (thank god I no longer deal with auto insurance). I have so many thoughts on this but basically this guy is human trash, and ICBC is a fucking tire fire. What a mess :lol:

[Godfather]

Oh also, in BC because health insurance is government run, doctor's billables for insured procedures are completely public :lol: You can look anyone up here: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/health/practitioner-pro/medical-services-plan/blue-book-2016-17.pdf (this just shows billed procedures - some docs are fully or partially salaried which shows up on another website)

This guy billed $1,350,778 in 2017. I can tell you from experience that basically only try-hard losers (or scammers) bill $1mil plus. Doctors who have no lives, work themselves to death, and tell their patients all to come in for follow-ups far too often, then rush them out of their offices after seeing them for 4 minutes :lol: I can't wait to ask a few people I know about him and hear what a douche I'm 99% sure that he is.

TLDR: It doesn't surprise me someone like this is being a huge piece of shit.

[lost in melb.]

Oh also, in BC because health insurance is government run, doctor's billables for insured procedures are completely public :lol: You can look anyone up here: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/health/practitioner-pro/medical-services-plan/blue-book-2016-17.pdf (this just shows billed procedures - some docs are fully or partially salaried which shows up on another website)

This guy billed $1,350,778 in 2017. I can tell you from experience that basically only try-hard losers (or scammers) bill $1mil plus. Doctors who have no lives, work themselves to death, and tell their patients all to come in for follow-ups far too often, then rush them out of their offices after seeing them for 4 minutes :lol: I can't wait to ask a few people I know about him and hear what a douche I'm 99% sure that he is.

TLDR: It doesn't surprise me someone like this is being a huge piece of shit.

Just to be clear, are you saying he did various surgical procedures and his patients claimed $1.3 million from the government health rebate scheme to go into his pocket :-k

[Godfather]

Just to be clear, are you saying he did various surgical procedures and his patients claimed $1.3 million from the government health rebate scheme to go into his pocket :-k

Kinda, not quite, sorry I'm explaining poorly. Not that it matters, but up here no rebates exist. Most patients never see a bill or apply for refunds, it's all on the back end.

Doctors perform procedures, then bill Medical Services directly to get paid for their work (provided that patient was eligible for gov. healthcare). The hospital and whoever else also bills MSP directly on behalf of the patient for their portion of the bill too. Anyways, a new patient consult might pocket the doctor $125, a small surgery maybe $500. This doctor's take home salary was $1.3m which is the sum of all procedures he billed MSP for.

I'm not sayings it's terribly suspicious, just that it's an absurd salary even for a specialist, and more than double the average. Most docs making $1M+ (except the ones doing private work) are the type who run around the hospital 100 hours a week like chickens with their heads off, billing everything can get their hands on, and spend as little time with patients or teaching residents possible. Ambulance chasers. I'm sure they exist everywhere.

Long story short, they're douchebags and it fits in with this guy trying to game ICBC :lol:

[Hal-9000]

Kinda, not quite, sorry I'm explaining poorly. Not that it matters, but up here no rebates exist. Most patients never see a bill or apply for refunds, it's all on the back end.

Doctors perform procedures, then bill Medical Services directly to get paid for their work (provided that patient was eligible for gov. healthcare). The hospital and whoever else also bills MSP directly on behalf of the patient for their portion of the bill too. Anyways, a new patient consult might pocket the doctor $125, a small surgery maybe $500. This doctor's take home salary was $1.3m which is the sum of all procedures he billed MSP for.

I'm not sayings it's terribly suspicious, just that it's an absurd salary even for a specialist, and more than double the average. Most docs making $1M+ (except the ones doing private work) are the type who run around the hospital 100 hours a week like chickens with their heads off, billing everything can get their hands on, and spend as little time with patients or teaching residents possible. Ambulance chasers. I'm sure they exist everywhere.

Long story short, they're douchebags and it fits in with this guy trying to game ICBC :lol:

If he bills over a million a year, there's a problem. I know an orthopedic surgeon who only makes 200-250k a year with a thriving practice. Even dermatologists, one of the biggest 'cattle call' doctors on the planet having huge numbers of patient turnover per day, don't approach a half million per year.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

So do you guys in Canada NOT have private auto insurance? :-k

[Hal-9000]

So do you guys in Canada NOT have private auto insurance? :-k

Private in what sense? That other people can't see my premiums?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Private in what sense? That other people can't see my premiums?

No, I mean like privately run insurance companies, like we have down here. We shop around for the best rates and can change auto insurance companies at any time. The way the story sounds is that the government runs the auto insurance up there too?

[Hal-9000]

No, I mean like privately run insurance companies, like we have down here. We shop around for the best rates and can change auto insurance companies at any time. The way the story sounds is that the government runs the auto insurance up there too?

No, it's the same as your set up down there. BC has ICBC as a carrier, so that plays into the government run insurance for sure. But people in BC don't have to use them. They can choose Allstate or whatever is available there.

EDIT: Sorry Lance, that was wrong. People in BC have to use ICBC for basic coverage, but then can supplement with private carriers for additional coverage.

GF would of course know more on this subject...

[Hal-9000]

I pick and choose any private car and home insurance I want in Alberta. We don't do the provincial thing BC does.

[Godfather]

No, it's the same as your set up down there. BC has ICBC as a carrier, so that plays into the government run insurance for sure. But people in BC don't have to use them. They can choose Allstate or whatever is available there.

EDIT: Sorry Lance, that was wrong. People in BC have to use ICBC for basic coverage, but then can supplement with private carriers for additional coverage.

GF would of course know more on this subject...

That’s right, it differs by province. A few have fully private auto, and a few have public auto for the minimum compulsory coverage like a low limit of liability coverage, but then can buy private or public coverage for higher limits and protection on the vehicle.

To make it more complex we now have a few provinces trying “no fault” auto which is sort of neat. In an accident you just have your own insurance pay for your harm, and the other persons does the same. Totally cuts out lawyers fighting over fault and who pays what which saves MILLIONS. Think that’s the way of the future.

[Godfather]

Interestingly, while everyone loves to protect ‘free market conditions’ ie private auto... the last study I read from Deloitte found that the four provinces with public (government) auto have the cheapest insurance rates... but I think it’s a very open debate.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

That’s right, it differs by province. A few have fully private auto, and a few have public auto for the minimum compulsory coverage like a low limit of liability coverage, but then can buy private or public coverage for higher limits and protection on the vehicle.

To make it more complex we now have a few provinces trying “no fault” auto which is sort of neat. In an accident you just have your own insurance pay for your harm, and the other persons does the same. Totally cuts out lawyers fighting over fault and who pays what which saves MILLIONS. Think that’s the way of the future.

Ambulance chasing personal injury lawyers would never go for that No Fault stuff :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Interestingly, while everyone loves to protect ‘free market conditions’ ie private auto... the last study I read from Deloitte found that the four provinces with public (government) auto have the cheapest insurance rates... but I think it’s a very open debate.

If they are only offering the bare minimum of coverage required, it's easy to have a lower rate. One lawsuit against you though and those minimum coverages are useless.

Me and the wife carry $250K/$500K coverage with an umbrella policy of up to $1 million more for liability.

[Godfather]

If he bills over a million a year, there's a problem. I know an orthopedic surgeon who only makes 200-250k a year with a thriving practice. Even dermatologists, one of the biggest 'cattle call' doctors on the planet having huge numbers of patient turnover per day, don't approach a half million per year.


Oh they offer full coverage too, and almost all people take it from them as it’s easier than having two insurers to deal with. Still cheaper than provinces with fully private per that study!

Most people here have at least $2 million liability but technically $250k is minimum. Given ICBC had had accidents with bodily injury over $7mil you’d be nuts driving around with less than $2-3mil in my personal opinion.

[KevinD]

No opinions either way other than, yes he seems to be a jerk. That said, I've had run ins with other peoples insurance here not wanting to pay out properly. Some of us don't drive 12K cars. The Ferrari F-40 is my all time fav Ferrari.

[Hal-9000]

Oh they offer full coverage too, and almost all people take it from them as it’s easier than having two insurers to deal with. Still cheaper than provinces with fully private per that study!

Most people here have at least $2 million liability but technically $250k is minimum. Given ICBC had had accidents with bodily injury over $7mil you’d be nuts driving around with less than $2-3mil in my personal opinion.

Yeah my PLPD is 2 million because my old boss's wife who used to write corporate and then private insurance gave me an example. "What if you hit a bus full of orphans and nuns and every one of them claims injury or death against you, including the bus driver for property loss?"

Nice ol British woman had a good way of putting things :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Wow, you guys have a higher minimum than we do (and that's a good thing). The minimum auto coverage required by Colorado is $25,000 per person for bodily injury, $50,000 per accident for bodily injury, and $15,000 per accident for property damage which isn't shit. So if you get hurt by someone carrying only the state minimum and they have no assets to sue for, then you have to collect on your own insurance policy.

[Hal-9000]

Wow, you guys have a higher minimum than we do (and that's a good thing). The minimum auto coverage required by Colorado is $25,000 per person for bodily injury, $50,000 per accident for bodily injury, and $15,000 per accident for property damage which isn't shit. So if you get hurt by someone carrying only the state minimum and they have no assets to sue for, then you have to collect on your own insurance policy.

And that's strange considering what happens in your country (no offense intended) where people sue each other constantly and don't carry insurance at times.

I thought 500k was our minimum, but again GF knows this stuff inside and out.

25 grand for injury? The person could make 150 grand a year, claim lost wages time and eclipse that limit instantly. And only 15 grand for property damage? A new Honda SUV up here is over 50 grand and that's not even in the Cadillac or Lexus territories..

[Teh One Who Knocks]

And that's strange considering what happens in your country (no offense intended) where people sue each other constantly and don't carry insurance at times.

I thought 500k was our minimum, but again GF knows this stuff inside and out.

25 grand for injury? The person could make 150 grand a year, claim lost wages time and eclipse that limit instantly. And only 15 grand for property damage? A new Honda SUV up here is over 50 grand and that's not even in the Cadillac or Lexus territories..

It's always people driving POS cars that have the absolute minimum liability coverage. And those are also the people you can't sue because they have nothing to get from them. And I completely agree with you, as sue happy as people are in this country, the state minimum should be MUCH higher. For those same three liability instances, I carry $250K/$500K/$250K with an additional $1 million in liability coverage. Still not a LOT of coverage, but should keep us safe against most normal kinds of claims.

[Hal-9000]

We get pretty stiff fines if caught with no insurance and or registration. Back in the day, a friend of mine got a 400 dollar ticket for not providing registration within 24 hours.

They've tamed the registration thing down and now ticket highly on the no insurance people.

I wonder if that would help you guys? Impose a 500 dollar fine on those mooks driving without insurance and impound their car until they can provide it?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

That's just it, it's already a stiff fine here:

If you are caught driving without proof of insurance, the penalties are steep (Colorado Statute 42-4-1409): Four points against your driver license. First offense: minimum $500 fine, and license suspension until you can show proof to the Division of Motor Vehicles that you are insured.

[Hal-9000]

I used to hate the idea of CCTV, but now I'd love to have them on every block of cities.

Someone runs a red, let's go upstairs and look at that play again Bob!

[Godfather]

Wow, you guys have a higher minimum than we do (and that's a good thing). The minimum auto coverage required by Colorado is $25,000 per person for bodily injury, $50,000 per accident for bodily injury, and $15,000 per accident for property damage which isn't shit. So if you get hurt by someone carrying only the state minimum and they have no assets to sue for, then you have to collect on your own insurance policy.


Ya even the min. here is too low for my blood.

Thankfully everyone who buys compulsory auto also gets $1mil of “underinsured or uninsured motorist protection” too, which means like you said, if some dillweed with no coverage or not enough hurts you, your own policy kicks in up to $1 mil for bodily harm. I also buy that limit up to $2 mil because it’s only $25/year. Probably the best $25 of insurance you can spend.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I used to hate the idea of CCTV, but now I'd love to have them on every block of cities.

Someone runs a red, let's go upstairs and look at that play again Bob!

I dunno if it would help...I can't even begin to count the number of violations I have seen happen right in front of cops and the cop didn't do anything. And it really pisses me off. Last ticket I got was for allegedly running a red light. Cop pulled me over, told me why he stopped me, and I told him it was still yellow when I entered the intersection. He said, you're right it was close, but I'm still giving you a ticket because we have zero tolerance for red light violations.

Biggest offense I see every freaking day is people ACTUALLY running red lights, especially on left turns.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Ya even the min. here is too low for my blood.

Thankfully everyone who buys compulsory auto also gets $1mil of “underinsured or uninsured motorist protection” too, which means like you said, if some dillweed with no coverage or not enough hurts you, your own policy kicks in up to $1 mil for bodily harm. I also buy that limit up to $2 mil because it’s only $25/year. Probably the best $25 of insurance you can spend.

But what sucks is, if you have to claim on your own policy, your rates go up, it's a no-win situation. :|

[Hal-9000]

Guy at work made fun of me for being honest and saying I'm using the vehicle for business commutes to work. I ended up leaving my work parking lot, turned left and got hit by the BC truck driver about 1000 meters from my workplace.

Same guy who made fun of me got rear ended by a courier in our work parking lot and ended up paying for his repairs out of pocket. His insurance company made one phone call to our supervisor and confirmed he drove the vehicle to work that day.

Moral of the story - 48 dollars per year difference between claiming work/pleasure use. (for me)

[Hal-9000]

I dunno if it would help...I can't even begin to count the number of violations I have seen happen right in front of cops and the cop didn't do anything. And it really pisses me off. Last ticket I got was for allegedly running a red light. Cop pulled me over, told me why he stopped me, and I told him it was still yellow when I entered the intersection. He said, you're right it was close, but I'm still giving you a ticket because we have zero tolerance for red light violations.

Biggest offense I see every freaking day is people ACTUALLY running red lights, especially on left turns.

I got tagged for a red light violation and speeding, two separate tickets, same sort of situation...on my birthday and called the cop a name (in humor) :lol:

He said - Can you tell me why you're smiling sir, I'm giving you two tickets.
me - It's Monday morning on the way to work and look at my license you dickhead, it's my birthday!
Him - I'll be right back.

He comes back and says - Sir, because it's Monday and your birthday, I've spaced the time to pay out on the tickets. And I am not a dickhead. Have a nice day.

:lol: I've always thought some form of CCTV could determine actual yellow/red light situations and speed. If they used the tech :shrug:

[Pony]

I don't have a problem with video cameras being used to determine an accident, other crime or as video proof you did or did not run a red light when a real life officer pulls you over. I do have a problem with automated red light and speed cameras that are run by third parties and not manned by police.

[Hal-9000]

I don't have a problem with video cameras being used to determine an accident, other crime or as video proof you did or did not run a red light when a real life officer pulls you over. I do have a problem with automated red light and speed cameras that are run by third parties and not manned by police.

I'm thinking of that recent gif where the guy keeps jumping up on the hood of car and the driver has a dashcam recording the event :lol:

I think cameras should be used to determine fault in lots of situations, not just red light infractions.



Truck driver pulling a 53 foot trailer ran a stop sign and hit my car in the rear left quarter panel so hard, I couldn't open my driver side door. (two door vehicle)

He comes up to me and says - Oh no my bumper! And then starts whining about his job. I scream at him, tell him to SHUT UP and wait OVER THERE, while I smoke and get my shit together. The cops show up, as they once did at minor accidents and look at my car, his PETERBILT CABOVER and the stop sign, then determine instantly he was at fault.

Yet I have to fight with his insurance company for over a month and eventually he tries to claim my car traveled 500 meters in three seconds, and I somehow got in front of him as he had waited at the stop sign, then was going through the turn before he hit me.

I'm being recorded by the adjuster on a phone call and used to be pretty good at math, when that scenario was presented. I respond - So your driver is claiming my 1986 Buick Skylark was traveling in excess of 300 kilometers per hour after traveling less than 500 meters??? That car will never be capable of traveling 300 kms per hour in ANY CIRCUMSTANCES :lol:



CCTV may have helped me there :thumbsup:

[Pony]

I'm thinking of that recent gif where the guy keeps jumping up on the hood of car and the driver has a dashcam recording the event :lol:

I think cameras should be used to determine fault in lots of situations, not just red light infractions.



Agreed. The issue I have with unmanned red light or speed cameras are that they are run by 3rd party companies that are 100% out to make a profit. It's been shown on many occasions of them shortening the timing of the yellow to gain revenue. Also motion captured stills don't show the whole scenario. For instance someone rolls up on a red light to turn right and their tire breaks the line in the road before they come to a complete stop. Any cop would let that go but a camera would issue a ticket.
For that reason and more they have judged automatic cameras that ticket unlawful here unless they are manned by an officer.

[Hal-9000]

Agreed. The issue I have with unmanned red light or speed cameras are that they are run by 3rd party companies that are 100% out to make a profit. It's been shown on many occasions of them shortening the timing of the yellow to gain revenue. Also motion captured stills don't show the whole scenario. For instance someone rolls up on a red light to turn right and their tire breaks the line in the road before they come to a complete stop. Any cop would let that go but a camera would issue a ticket.
For that reason and more they have judged automatic cameras that ticket unlawful here unless they are manned by an officer.

Conversely, I've got way more speeding tickets via camera than when a cop is there shooting the radar gun :|

I live on a drive that enters and exits onto the same road at two different places. Think of a U with a line across the top.

The entire area is a moat of playground zones. You can't get to my place without driving through a playground zone.

Everyone speeds, even with a school, large schoolyard and park on the drive. Yet I've never seen a cop there. If they were to set up a camera just on the road that forms the top part of U, they would tag 50 cars a day.

[Pony]

I rarely see a cop in my area. It's a development with a grid of 25mph streets. Not a lot of through traffic. Most everyone does 30 or so, will roll the stop signs. There are a few cars a week that are excessively speeding or totally blowing the stop without slowing down. If it became a regular occurrence a neighbor or myself would call and ask to put an officer there for a couple days to get the offenders and deter anyone else.

[Hal-9000]

My back alley is the problem for me. Parents use it to drop off their kids at the school as it's about 200 meters closer than the street. (lazy asses)

And they have been speeding down it for decades. You'd think right after dropping off your six year old kid, that a parent would be considerate of other kids in the same location.

I have fantasies about spike belts, pit traps, hidden tire gates.....but then I would become 'that guy' and don't want the reputation :lol:

[Pony]

My back alley is the problem for me.

I have fantasies about spike belts, pit traps, hidden tire gates.....but then I would become 'that guy' and don't want the reputation :lol:

:shock:

[Hal-9000]

I've mentioned this...my Dad put two railway ties along the outside of our little strip of grass behind the fence. He got so tired of people parking there daily and chewing up our lawn.

City told him that strip of lawn was our responsibility to look after, so he did.

One time a woman high centered her vehicle on one...Lordy you should of heard the language coming out of her filthy mouth :lol: