Fmr. Supreme Court Justice: Repeal the Second Amendment

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Conor Beck - Washington Free Beacon


https://i.imgur.com/83E3GLa.jpg

Retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens penned an op-ed in the New York Times on Thursday where he argued gun control demonstrators should "demand a repeal of the Second Amendment."

Stevens begins his piece, titled "John Paul Stevens: Repeal the Second Amendment," by expressing admiration for "the type of civic engagement schoolchildren and their supporters demonstrated" during Saturday's "March for Our Lives."

"These demonstrations demand our respect," Stevens said. "They reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society," he said.

He expressed support for their calls to produce legislation prohibiting ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increase the minimum age to buy a gun, and establish more comprehensive background checks.

But Stevens argued those measures don't go far enough. What is really needed, he said, is the repeal of the Second Amendment.

"But the demonstrators should seek more effective and more lasting reform," Stevens said. "They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment."

The initial reasons behind the Second Amendment, including that a "national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states," are "a relic of the 18th century," he argued.

He stated that for over 200 years, it was understood the Second Amendment did not preclude federal or state gun control legislation. Now, he argued, that understanding has been unduly challenged by the National Rifle Association.

"During the years when Warren Burger was our chief justice, from 1969 to 1986, no judge, federal or state, as far as I am aware, expressed any doubt as to the limited coverage of that amendment," Stevens said.

He argued the NRA has challenged the stance maintained under Chief Justice Warren Burger by "claiming that federal regulation of firearms curtailed Second Amendment rights."

Stevens brought up the Heller Supreme Court decision, which he offered the dissenting opinion for, saying it provided the NRA with a "propaganda weapon of immense power."

"In 2008, the Supreme Court overturned Chief Justice Burger’s and others’ long-settled understanding of the Second Amendment’s limited reach by ruling, in District of Columbia v. Heller, that there was an individual right to bear arms. I was among the four dissenters."

Stevens said he remains convinced the decision was "wrong" but added it was at least "debatable." As such, overturning the decision and repealing the Second Amendment should be "simple," he said.

"Overturning that decision via a constitutional amendment to get rid of the Second Amendment would be simple and would do more to weaken the N.R.A.’s ability to stymie legislative debate and block constructive gun control legislation than any other available option," Stevens said.

"That simple but dramatic action would move Saturday’s marchers closer to their objective than any other possible reform," Stevens said.

Stevens ultimately argued reversing Heller and repealing the Second Amendment, thereby greatly restricting gun ownership in the United States, is the best option to "make our schoolchildren safer."

"It would make our schoolchildren safer than they have been since 2008 and honor the memories of the many, indeed far too many, victims of recent gun violence," he said.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:facepalm: Good thing he is a former

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I like how these assholes job is to interpret the laws, but they just decide their opinion is what matters.

[Muddy]

Fmr. person that stayed in a Holiday Inn Express: Go fuck yourself

[DemonGeminiX]

I like how these assholes job is to interpret the laws, but they just decide their opinion is what matters.

Yeah, his "interpretation" is completely wrong on this one.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Its not even an interpretation, its his personal opinion

[DemonGeminiX]

That's why I put interpretation in quotes.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

:lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDZBLfeX8wI

[lost in melb.]

Days gonna come when you hand those puppies over... You know it ;)

[DemonGeminiX]

No, it's not.

[lost in melb.]

Maybe not you, DGX :lol: But all it takes is one generation but to give a fck so much, and it's over

[DemonGeminiX]

It'll never happen, chief. Not in this country.

Everyone you see crying for gun control on the TV, they're in the vast minority. And the silent majority that you don't see on TV, the ones that sent Hillary packing, they don't believe in gun control, they're having kids, and they're raising those kids with guns, teaching them the value of liberty, the sanctity of life, and what it means to be free. And those kids will grow up believing in freedom and the individual right to keep and bear arms. And they'll have kids, who they'll teach what was taught to them, and so on and so on and so on. So when your descendants in Australia are busy being shackled and enslaved by the next tyrannical government, foreign or domestic, that takes over your stupid asses that your people couldn't fend off because they were unarmed, we'll still be free, flipping you the bird, and saying "We told you so, dumbass".

[Pony]

Days gonna come when you hand those puppies over... You know it ;)

The day they ban guns is the same day millions of Americans suddenly "lose" them or "sold" them years ago. All a ban would do is create millions of felons because a majority would not just voluntarily hand them over.

[DemonGeminiX]

That's the day everybody resolves to vote the bastard that voted for such a ban out of office. It'll be a landslide.

[Pony]

That's the day everybody resolves to vote the bastard that voted for such a ban out of office. It'll be a landslide.

And every other person from that party.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

FOX News


https://i.imgur.com/vIMbtxV.jpg

President Donald Trump took to Twitter early Wednesday to defend the Second Amendment just a day after retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens called for its repeal.

Stevens, 97, wrote in an essay on The New York Times website that repeal would weaken the National Rifle Association’s ability to “block constructive gun control legislation.”

Trump, who has in the past appeared to change positions on tougher gun laws, took a firm stance in the tweet, and issued a warning if Republicans come up short at the polls.

“THE SECOND AMENDMENT WILL NEVER BE REPEALED!” he tweeted. “As much as Democrats would like to see this happen, and despite the words yesterday of former Supreme Court Justice Stevens, NO WAY. We need more Republicans in 2018 and must ALWAYS hold the Supreme Court!”

Repealing the amendment would be extremely difficult.

An amendment to the constitution can only be proposed either by Congress with a two-thirds vote in both houses or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the state legislatures. The amendment then has to be approved by three-quarters of the states.
978932860307505153
Stevens was on the losing end of a 2008 ruling in which the high court held that the Second Amendment gives individuals the right to own a gun for self-defense. He had previously called for changing the Second Amendment to permit gun control.

Stevens said the decision in that case, District of Columbia v. Heller, “has provided the N.R.A. with a propaganda weapon of immense power.” Stevens retired from the court in 2010, after more than 35 years.

In his essay published Tuesday, Stevens talked about the “March for Our Lives” events on Saturday which drew crowds in cities across the country. Stevens said the demonstrations “reveal the broad public support for legislation to minimize the risk of mass killings of schoolchildren and others in our society.”

He said the support “is a clear sign to lawmakers to enact legislation prohibiting civilian ownership of semiautomatic weapons, increasing the minimum age to buy a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establishing more comprehensive background checks on all purchasers of firearms.”

But Stevens called on demonstrators to “seek more effective and more lasting reform.”

“They should demand a repeal of the Second Amendment,” he wrote.

The Associated Press contributed to this report

[lost in melb.]

It'll never happen, chief. Not in this country.

Everyone you see crying for gun control on the TV, they're in the vast minority. And the silent majority that you don't see on TV, the ones that sent Hillary packing, they don't believe in gun control, they're having kids, and they're raising those kids with guns, teaching them the value of liberty, the sanctity of life, and what it means to be free. And those kids will grow up believing in freedom and the individual right to keep and bear arms. And they'll have kids, who they'll teach what was taught to them, and so on and so on and so on.

Hey , we have the right to bear arms too, mostly for rabbit and kanga shooting though :dunno:


So when your descendants in Australia are busy being shackled and enslaved by the next tyrannical government, foreign or domestic, that takes over your stupid asses that your people couldn't fend off because they were unarmed, we'll still be free, flipping you the bird, and saying "We told you so, dumbass".


:shockface:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Repealing the 2nd Amendment is a pipe dream for liberals and whiny babies. In order to repeal, a new Amendment would need to be proposed to repeal the 2nd Amendment. For this to happen, the new Amendment would need to be approved by a 2/3 majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives. Then, the vote on the new proposed Amendment would need to go to each state's legislature for a vote. And it would take 3/4 of the states (38 of the 50) to vote with a 2/3 majority in their legislatures for the Amendment to pass and become part of the Constitution.

[Muddy]

I dont mind reeling in the 2nd amendment some.. But I know once you allow a chink in that armor the rust begins..

[Pony]

I dont mind reeling in the 2nd amendment some.. But I know once you allow a chink in that armor the rust begins..

That's the biggest fear. When one regulation fails to work they will just push for another, then another, etc. It's already scary the amount of false information out there about guns and the amount of people that believe it. I still see many posts talking about guns that mow people down firing 300 rounds per minute, etc. I try to politely correct these people but usually just get attacked.

Some of the laws I've seen being pushed as "assault weapons bans" are clearly semi-auto bans by definition, they would outlaw 75% of all guns being sold.

[Muddy]

That's the biggest fear. When one regulation fails to work they will just push for another, then another, etc. It's already scary the amount of false information out there about guns and the amount of people that believe it. I still see many posts talking about guns that mow people down firing 300 rounds per minute, etc. I try to politely correct these people but usually just get attacked.

Some of the laws I've seen being pushed as "assault weapons bans" are clearly semi-auto bans by definition, they would outlaw 75% of all guns being sold.

Exactly.. There is no difference in an AR15 and a Mini 14.. Just perception.. Once you eliminate the AR wheres the logic to not go after the mini?

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Exactly.. There is no difference in an AR15 and a Mini 14.. Just perception.. Once you eliminate the AR wheres the logic to not go after the mini?

Thats just a semi auto weapon, why not take my 9mm, its semi auto...and a scary black

[Muddy]

My 9 is not black, good sir.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Oh you got the white one

[Muddy]

Oh you got the white one

http://i63.tinypic.com/2itmqz7.png

[Pony]

Thats just a semi auto weapon, why not take my 9mm, its semi auto...and a scary black

If it holds more than 10 rounds apparently it's an assault weapon.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

https://i.imgur.com/3yD8TOy.png

[DemonGeminiX]

lol @ child's lunchbox

:lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

Hey , we have the right to bear arms too, mostly for rabbit and kanga shooting though :dunno:




:shockface:

Russia and China are closer to y'all then they are to us. When they go on their world domination tear, they're gonna hit y'all first. I hope you can learn new languages quickly. I hear Chinese is really hard.

[deebakes]

...and a scary black

:racist:

[perrhaps]

I dont mind reeling in the 2nd amendment some.. But I know once you allow a chink in that armor the rust begins..

Has outlawing child pornography or yelling "Fire" in our movie theaters begun to rust our First Amendment rights?


I can't go to bed at night with my trusty bazooka and flame thrower at the foot of my bed (I'll settle for my Rottweiler), but nobody can logically can argue that my inability to own these or purchase a tank to drive up and down my street violates my Second Amendment rights. Personally, Ifeel that fully-automatic rifles that have no purpose other than to kill are to the Second Amendment what kiddie porn is to the First.

For those that wish to indulge in the fantasy that a group of unorganized, largely out-of-shape middle-age-and-above White men will somehow miraculously organize and repel some hypothetical attempt by our military or a foreign power to enslave us, when I was a kid I wanted to be Superman. If I went outside with a cape on and jumped off my roof, I'd have as much chance of succeeding as the NRA Peoples Army.

[DemonGeminiX]

For those that wish to indulge in the fantasy that a group of unorganized, largely out-of-shape middle-age-and-above White men will somehow miraculously organize and repel some hypothetical attempt by our military or a foreign power to enslave us, when I was a kid I wanted to be Superman. If I went outside with a cape on and jumped off my roof, I'd have as much chance of succeeding as the NRA Peoples Army.

You might want to review some history. It's riddled with events where outmatched and outnumbered "forces" beat vastly superior armies and insurmountable odds. Don't be so quick to write people off. They're capable of doing amazing things.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Personally, Ifeel that fully-automatic rifles that have no purpose other than to kill are to the Second Amendment what kiddie porn is to the First.

As I have pointed out before in other threads on this topic, full auto firearms are severely restricted by the federal government. It is illegal for any civilian to own or possess and automatic weapon manufactured after 1986. Also, if you do want to own one of the pre-1986 weapons, you must pay for a permit from BATF and you must pass an invasive background check by the FBI as well as do the transfer of possession through a Class 3 licensed firearms dealer (not all are) and there is a fairly heft transfer fee you will be charged. Further, depending on the county in which you reside in your state, you may need a permit/permission from the sheriff to even possess the weapon. If the sheriff says no, then you cannot possess it legally there and would have to move to another county if your desire to own an automatic weapon outweighed everything else in your life. And, because civilians may only own pre-1986 automatic weapons, there is a finite number of weapons available to own and the cost of getting one is so high, that only well off collectors (for the most part) can afford to own them.

And finally, your mention of bazookas and flamethrowers and tanks are just straw man arguments because no one is saying they should be owned by the general populace.

[lost in melb.]

You might want to review some history. It's riddled with events where outmatched and outnumbered "forces" beat vastly superior armies and insurmountable odds. Don't be so quick to write people off. They're capable of doing amazing things.

I hate to say, but the first thing that popped into my mind was 'Nam. I did visit there recently though.

[Goofy]

https://i.imgur.com/3yD8TOy.png
Thats not an AK [-(

[Goofy]

Serious question - can a US citizen legally own an M16 given that the M16 is not fully automatic? :-k

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Serious question - can a US citizen legally own an M16 given that the M16 is not fully automatic? :-k

An M-16 is a full auto weapon. The AR-15 is the civilian 'version' of it to an extent.

[lost in melb.]

I think its going to be impossible to restrict semi-automatics in the US.

Whatever you change it must be simple and universal. In Australia semis were made illegal, and that made it real simple. This will not happen in the US (for the foreseeable future), however restricting semi's range, firepower, etc will be too messy. The different states and political parties will never agree.

The only way forward is to make it much harder for people who are young or mentally unstable to get their hands on high powered weapons, or to amass lots of them. There is almost no way to stop something like Vegas, though. He was too clever.

[Goofy]

An M-16 is a full auto weapon. The AR-15 is the civilian 'version' of it to an extent.
I thought it was burst fire, not full auto :-k








Then again, my knowledge of assault rifles comes from video games 8-[

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I thought it was burst fire, not full auto :-k








Then again, my knowledge of assault rifles comes from video games 8-[

https://i.imgur.com/P2saiAp.jpg

[Goofy]

Well, my M16 on Battlefield 4 only fired in burst fire mode [-(

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I think its going to be impossible to restrict semi-automatics in the US.

Whatever you change it must be simple and universal. In Australia semis were made illegal, and that made it real simple. This will not happen in the US (for the foreseeable future), however restricting semi's range, firepower, etc will be too messy. The different states and political parties will never agree.

The only way forward is to make it much harder for people who are young or mentally unstable to get their hands on high powered weapons, or to amass lots of them. There is almost no way to stop something like Vegas, though. He was too clever.

And that's what happened with the shooting in Florida. It wasn't 'easy access to guns' or 'assault weapons', it was a failure of law enforcement all the way around, from the FBI down to the local police. When the cops are called dozens of times to a residence for disturbances and nothing is done, it's a failure. When the FBI receives a handful of tips that the kid is planning something and people fear he's dangerous and nothing is done, that's a failure. When the cop assigned to the school hides outside instead of doing his job, that's a failure. This kid needed help and nothing was done about it.

[Muddy]

Russia and China are closer to y'all then they are to us. When they go on their world domination tear, they're gonna hit y'all first. I hope you can learn new languages quickly. I hear Chinese is really hard.

It's OK they got Kanga guns.. :thumbsup:

[Pony]

https://i.imgur.com/9vmTPOX.jpg

[The Monk]

One man speaks sense and America cannot see it.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment will not necessarily take away guns.... Guns (of a reasonable type) could still be owned and used for sporting or hunting purposes, maybe just better control of the total situation.

I understand also that until the general IQ of America is raised to the normal levels enjoyed by citizens of most other countries, such ideas will always bring debate.

[The Monk]

https://i.imgur.com/9vmTPOX.jpg

What absolute bullshit!!

[Muddy]

I understand also that until the general IQ of America is raised to the normal levels enjoyed by citizens of most other countries

If you said this to my face I'd punch you in your god damn mouth.. Go FUCK yourself, Monk!

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Clearly you don't understand the point of the 2nd amendment . Its not about hunting, its about protection from or government

[DemonGeminiX]

I hate to say, but the first thing that popped into my mind was 'Nam. I did visit there recently though.

You're not wrong. I'll admit it. We lost that war. But that's not the end of it. Neither is the American Revolution, which is another example. If Jez was here, he'd mention how his country beat the crap out of a vastly superior Russian army, and he'd be right as well. History is littered with examples of underdog victories, all the way back to recorded antiquity.

[Griffin]

One man speaks sense and America cannot see it.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment will not necessarily take away guns.... Guns (of a reasonable type) could still be owned and used for sporting or hunting purposes, maybe just better control of the total situation.

I understand also that until the general IQ of America is raised to the normal levels enjoyed by citizens of most other countries, such ideas will always bring debate.


Guns are not the problem, people are. :meh:

[lost in melb.]

You're not wrong. I'll admit it. We lost that war. But that's not the end of it. Neither is the American Revolution, which is another example. If Jez was here, he'd mention how his country beat the crap out of a vastly superior Russian army, and he'd be right as well. History is littered with examples of underdog victories, all the way back to recorded antiquity.

Yes, examples of a more ferociously determined opposition - guns or not :hand: War is ( in part) a psychological phenomenon.

Btw at the Chu Chi tunnels they were firing off some AK47s. Looked like fun, but the queue was long - and boy were they loud. I was concerned about my hearing from 20 or 30 metres away.

[lost in melb.]

If you said this to my face I'd punch you in your god damn mouth.. Go FUCK yourself, Monk!

Muddy's Equatorial Guinean ancestry speaking :winner:

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

[DemonGeminiX]

Yes, examples of a more ferociously determined opposition - guns or not :hand: War is ( in part) a psychological phenomenon.

Btw at the Chu Chi tunnels they were firing off some AK47s. Looked like fun, but the queue was long - and boy were they loud. I was concerned about my hearing from 20 or 30 metres away.

Ranges in the USA usually require you to wear hearing protection.

[lost in melb.]

Ranges in the USA usually require you to wear hearing protection.

I would imagine so. During war-time, I imagine not so..

[Muddy]

Muddy's Equatorial Guinean ancestry speaking :winner:

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

Jesus.. Africa really bringing up the rear.. Do you think its because of lack of education? Some IQ tests are supposed to get around book smarts.. Like puzzle tests and things..

[lost in melb.]

Jesus.. Africa really bringing up the rear.. Do you think its because of lack of education? Some IQ tests are supposed to get around book smarts.. Like puzzle tests and things..

You're completely correct - IQ tests are designed to bypass educational smarts.

My understanding is it's infectious disease that sink these countries mental performance - i.e the people taking the tests are half-dead.

http://thasso.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Malaria-II.png

[KevinD]

I thought it was burst fire, not full auto :-k








Then again, my knowledge of assault rifles comes from video games 8-[

While Lance is correct, the M16a2 is what you're thinking of Goof. It has safe,semi, and burst (3 round). I was active duty when they took away my m16a1, and issued the a2 instead. As per legallity, since the burst occurs with one pull of trigger, and mutiple (in this case 3) rounds are fired, it's still considered automatic, thus falling into same process as Lance described: basically illegal or at for private citizens to own.

[KevinD]

Oh, and as for the judge? He's a moron.

[The Monk]

Clearly you don't understand the point of the 2nd amendment . Its not about hunting, its about protection from or government

It's about 18th century thinking in a 21st century world.

[The Monk]

Guns are not the problem, people are. :meh:

People may well be a problem but the access to a weapon makes their behaviour even worse.


I cannot understand why so many Americans are so deluded on guns. At least youth is now taking a stand and maybe with a more modern approach to thinking (as opposed to being rooted back in the 1700's) attitudes may change.

We can only hope so for the future of many lives that could be lost to this problem.

[The Monk]

If you said this to my face I'd punch you in your god damn mouth.. Go FUCK yourself, Monk!

Your reaction is no more than I expected. It's a fact - the average IQ of Americans is below that of a significant number of developed countries. Look it up!!

I don't have to worry too much about your lot....you'll eventually shoot each other! :mrgreen:

[lost in melb.]

Your reaction is no more than I expected. It's a fact - the average IQ of Americans is below that of a significant number of developed countries. Look it up!!

I don't have to worry too much about your lot....you'll eventually shoot each other! :mrgreen:

Hey, did your realise Aussi IQ is on par with American :mrgreen:

[The Monk]

Hey, did your realise Aussi IQ is on par with American :mrgreen:

Yes I did, we are both at the same level and that is still below many other developed countries.

[lost in melb.]

Yes I did, we are both at the same level and that is still below many other developed countries.

Dude, I do this for a living :empathy:

We are on par with developed countries. A couple of points don't matter.

Developed Asian countries are a bit above because of the much greater emphasis on mathematics - Singapore and Hong Kong are elitist cliques, not really countries. If you took the inner parts of any major city in Australia or US, the average IQ would be much higher.

p.s. IQ doesn't predict common sense, history, or cultural anomalies.

[Muddy]

Monk, you are an idiot.

[The Monk]

Monk, you are an idiot.

I love you too...... :lol:

[KevinD]

It's about 18th century thinking in a 21st century world.

Annnd, to this, I would reply to an American at least, because, tbh, who cares what you think of our laws, if the 2nd is an 18th century idea, what about the other 9 ammendments, commonly referred to as "the bill of rights"?
oh, and as much as I refer to myself as a Texan, I am an American, and out constitution is what separates us from the rest of the world. It's a group of ideas, namely, that every citizen has these god given rights, Bono (though I'm not a fan) said it well.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

It's about 18th century thinking in a 21st century world.

No it isnt

[The Monk]

I wonder what it will eventually take for right minded Americans to wake up to the violence of the gun culture and do something? Maybe this current generation will lead the way.

Here's hoping there are no more school massacres in the future.