Illinois drops writing from standardized exam

[AntZ]

Illinois drops writing from standardized exam


7/6/11 8:31 a.m.



CHICAGO (AP) - Illinois will assess only reading and arithmetic now that high school juniors will no longer be tested on their writing skills during standardized exams every spring, according to a published report.

Cutting the writing exams will save about $2.4 million amid the state's budgetary shortfalls. Writing tests for elementary and middle school students were dropped last year.

"We're trying to minimize the damage" of the cuts, Schools Superintendent Christopher Koch told the Chicago Tribune for a story published Wednesday. "Writing is one of the most expensive things to assess."

Federal law doesn't require or fund writing tests. Under the federal No Child Left Behind law, public schools are evaluated based on their reading and math test results.

Illinois isn't alone in struggling with how to offer an effective education for less money. Oregon and Missouri also recently made money-saving cuts to their writing exams.

Illinois education officials expect to restore the writing assessments in 2014 when a new state testing plan will require students to periodically take online tests, Koch said.

And the end of the writing section on state standardized exams for now doesn't mean students won't be tested on their writing at all. Many Advanced Placement exams given in May require writing, and the SAT college entrance exam has a writing requirement.

While some teachers and advocates lamented that the changes may take attention away from writing instruction, others said it may open some doors.

Without having to focus on the tests, "I think it offers some freedom," said teacher Heather Schwartz of Pfc. Omar Torres Charter School in Chicago.


_______________________________________________

People from around the world often find it hard to understand why the U.S. is so far behind in student test scores. The answer, one of the largest unions in the country controlling the nations schools. They are unable to teach regardless of how much money is wasted, so the best they can do is start dropping various types of testing. Now it will be tougher for the country to pinpoint how bad the educational system.

Just like the story, the other day, from Atlanta where the teachers held parties so they can work together to change student scores on mass.

[Acid Trip]

Wow! So because teachers actually have to read and assess a writing portion (aka spend time and think) they are going to leave it out? Fucking amazing...

[Muddy]

Why did Bush start the 'no child left behind' program? All it has done is dumb down the entire education system.

[Loser]

Why did Bush start the 'no child left behind' program? All it has done is dumb down the entire education system.

You have no fucking idea how bad it is.

In seventh and eighth grade I was learning algebra, chemistry and A.P algebra, but when I entered high school, they dumped me in remedial math. Why? Because the school had no calculus, trig, or chemistry classes. My freshman and sophomore years, I ditched enough days to completely wipe out a school year and maintained an A average. In those two years I watched the movie "Tuskegee airmen" at least a dozen times. I watched it so much I can recite half the damn movie script from memory. :roll:

After those two years of hell, I ended up dropping out and retaking all 4 years of high school through an accredited home schooling course. Finished it in roughly 6 months and passed with a honors diploma.

Needless to say, if or when I have children, they will be home schooled.

[Acid Trip]

Why did Bush start the 'no child left behind' program? All it has done is dumb down the entire education system.

Yeah, everything that's wrong with this country is Bush's fault. :rolleyes:

Here is the voting record and you can see that Democrats and Republicans alike voted for it.

Akaka (D-HI), Not Voting
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Nay
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Yea
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burns (R-MT), Yea
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Campbell (R-CO), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Chafee (R-RI), Yea
Cleland (D-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Yea
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corzine (D-NJ), Yea
Craig (R-ID), Yea
Crapo (R-ID), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dayton (D-MN), Nay
DeWine (R-OH), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Yea
Enzi (R-WY), Yea
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Fitzgerald (R-IL), Yea
Frist (R-TN), Yea
Graham (D-FL), Yea
Gramm (R-TX), Yea
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Gregg (R-NH), Yea
Hagel (R-NE), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Helms (R-NC), Not Voting
Hollings (D-SC), Nay
Hutchinson (R-AR), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Yea
Inhofe (R-OK), Yea
Inouye (D-HI), Yea
Jeffords (I-VT), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Nay
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Yea
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Not Voting
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Nay
Nickles (R-OK), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Santorum (R-PA), Yea
Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Smith (R-NH), Yea
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Specter (R-PA), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Yea
Thomas (R-WY), Yea
Thompson (R-TN), Yea
Thurmond (R-SC), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea
Voinovich (R-OH), Nay
Warner (R-VA), Yea
Wellstone (D-MN), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Yea

[Muddy]

Yeah, everything that's wrong with this country is Bush's fault. :rolleyes:

Here is the voting record and you can see that Democrats and Republicans alike voted for it.



Sorry I made a comment about Bush.. I didn't realize it was not ok to utter his name...

[redred]

can we still say obama ?

[Acid Trip]

Sorry I made a comment about Bush.. I didn't realize it was not ok to utter his name...

"Sorry I made a comment about Bush" (self deprecating and totally insincere) "I didn't realize it was no ok to utter his name" (trying to make me look like the bad guy when I never said that).

I see right through you Muddy.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwJY78xfcfAQgVZ0BX4JkRA1OxJi1VX qEkGGF_ibGoRFlmjcJ7yA

[Shady]

Regardless of who instituted it, created it or voted for it, No Child Left Behind is one of the worst programs to ever be implemented on the nations educational system. I can't tell you how many times I've heard friends and family that work in the educational system complain about it. We need to face the fact that not all minds are created equal.

Excellent example, When I graduated high school I had a full years credit of calculus under my belt and already passed my math requirement for college. In contrast one of my best friends is taking algebra in college right now. He is challenged with it. We graduated before the program went into effect. Had I been forced to take the same math as everyone else I would have not even bothered and probably dropped out cause there was no challenge in it for me.

Dropping writing from standardized testing is horrible. I don't expect to see many great authors coming out of Illinois in the future. Whut iz goin on hear?

[Noilly Pratt]

I think that we can all generally agree that the N. American education system isn't what it used to be...Canada included and Obama and Bush had nothing to do with us.

I get really ticked when my daughter, who's just finished Grade 2 has excellent English skills (tested to be reading at an adult level!) but very poor math skills. They're barely teaching them to add and subtract. By now I'd think they'd be beyond that level. Everyone I speak with locally says the same thing - it's just not stressed in our curriculum here. Even the teachers are frustrated...they can't "vary from the script" too much.

But, I will say this -- this school is fairly progressive. It's a public school that teaches the Montessori method but isn't a slave to it. It's kind of the best of both worlds, with a lot of field trips to Grocery Stores, and even Monasteries. These field trips and the transportation are of course funded by the parents -- the budgets are being lessened every year by the government.

I volunteer at my daughter's school whenever I can -- it's the only way I can know what's really going on in there. I suggest all parents do the same.

And if the teacher isn't into it - I would be suspicious. My daughter's teachers welcome us in and we help out doing stuff like giving spelling quizzes to the mundane stuff like doing the photocopying!

[Muddy]

"Sorry I made a comment about Bush" (self deprecating and totally insincere) "I didn't realize it was no ok to utter his name" (trying to make me look like the bad guy when I never said that).

I see right through you Muddy.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwJY78xfcfAQgVZ0BX4JkRA1OxJi1VX qEkGGF_ibGoRFlmjcJ7yA

You did say that with your immediate defensive posture, and attempt to redirect blame.

I see right through you as well.

http://thenextbarstool.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/gunjesus.jpg

[Teh One Who Knocks]

"Sorry I made a comment about Bush" (self deprecating and totally insincere) "I didn't realize it was no ok to utter his name" (trying to make me look like the bad guy when I never said that).

I see right through you Muddy.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwJY78xfcfAQgVZ0BX4JkRA1OxJi1VX qEkGGF_ibGoRFlmjcJ7yA

Enough, you're the one who started it with the eye rolling. MG simply made a comment and whether you like it or not, it doesn't matter which or how many members of congress were for the bill, W is the one that started it and then signed it into law.

Or is that just 'left wing conspiracy'?

[Loser]

NCLB was originally proposed by the administration of George W. Bush immediately after he took office.[3] The bill, shepherded through the Senate by co-author Senator Ted Kennedy, received overwhelming bipartisan support in Congress.[4]

Directly from wikipedia.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Im a fan of gearing school towards the dumbest student, why would we want to challenge our kids. At least when you dumb it down everyone wins :dance:

[RBP]

Enough, you're the one who started it with the eye rolling. MG simply made a comment and whether you like it or not, it doesn't matter which or how many members of congress were for the bill, W is the one that started it and then signed it into law.

Or is that just 'left wing conspiracy'?

Actually it was Bush and Ted Kennedy equally.

[RBP]

Directly from wikipedia.

Oh didn't see this...

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Im a fan of gearing school towards the dumbest student, why would we want to challenge our kids. At least when you dumb it down everyone wins :dance:

Participation ribbons for everyone :cheerlead:


Actually it was Bush and Ted Kennedy equally.


Oh didn't see this...

;)

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Lets do away with grades too. We dont want the dumb kids pointed out it may be embarrassing for them.

[Muddy]

Can I get a ribbon for participating in this thread?

[Godfather]

Brutal... parents everywhere are trying to buy education for their children too. Plopping them in front of Baby Einstein so they can go primp their hair.


What ever happened to teachers and parents alike... sitting down with children and making them write out their homework, their English and algebra?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Lets do away with grades too. We dont want the dumb kids pointed out it may be embarrassing for them.

Some schools already prohibit teachers from using red ink because it hurts the students feelings :roll:

[Godfather]

Some schools already prohibit teachers from using red ink because it hurts the students feelings :roll:

^ This

I've got family members who are teachers and it drives them up the wall. Over-involved parents who don't actually help with homework at home, except their children to be told (and tell them) that they are wonderful at everything. That everything they touch turns to gold :roll: It doesn't take much research to see how unhelpful this is...

[Muddy]

In Finland, all the children have a 4 year college degree by the age of 7...

[Godfather]

In Finland, all the children have a 4 year college degree by the age of 7...

Funny you say that!!! In some of those Nordic countries where the education levels blow the US and Canada out of the water.... kids don't start school until age 7!!!

Here we're getting them in full time, two year pre-schools and then kindergarten... obsessed that schools take them and teach them how to read and do some math by age 5.

But in those countries... they find the way to have children at home until an older age. Then when they start school where our kids would be going into grade 2!? BOOM. They learn at a rapid rate, far faster than kids here do. Those years at home are invaluable...


Anyways... that's about 3 posts for me in under a minute :lol: Sorry about that

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Funny you say that!!! In some of those Nordic countries where the education levels blow the US and Canada out of the water.... kids don't start school until age 7!!!

Here we're getting them in full time, two year pre-schools and then kindergarten... obsessed that they know how to read and do some math by age 5.

But in those countries... they find the way to have children at home until an older age. Then when they start school where our kids would be going into grade 2!? BOOM. They learn at a rapid rate, far faster than kids here do. Those years at home are invaluable...


Anyways... that's about 3 posts for me in under a minute :lol: Sorry about that

I swear half the time I hear people talking about what pre-school their kids are in, it's all a status symbol thing to be spending the most money on the most expensive pre-school there is so they can one-up their friends.. The parents don't care if the kids are actually learning anything just so long as the kids are out of their hair for the day. :|

[Muddy]

Funny you say that!!! In some of those Nordic countries where the education levels blow the US and Canada out of the water....

I've heard tale that the large number of uneducated minorities in this country destroy our test score averages, and fuck up the system for the general population..

[Godfather]

I swear half the time I hear people talking about what pre-school their kids are in, it's all a status symbol thing to be spending the most money on the most expensive pre-school there is so they can one-up their friends.. The parents don't care if the kids are actually learning anything just so long as the kids are out of their hair for the day. :|

So true. My boss mentions the pre-school his sons are in every fuggin' day :roll: He subtly works it into every mention of his kids.

I subtly showed him a news article on how useless pre-school has proven to be when compared to other countries with better education.... swallow that when you write the tuition cheques for your 4 year old.

[Loser]

Tbh, all it takes is one teacher who gives a flying fuck. When I went from private schooling to public schooling I was dumb as a box of rocks, but one teacher would tutor me after school and got me going. Like I said, I was doing algebra, A.P algebra and chemistry by 7th/8th grade. It wasn't until high school that it all went downhill. Alcoholic teachers, teachers that would sleep in class, racist as fuck history teachers, etc... My one teacher wasn't even fucking accredited by the state to teach, yet he taught earth science and economics... Another teacher was arrested in front of the entire school for molesting a 14 year old girl, another for throwing a desk at a student.

When I wanted to swap to another school I couldn't because of boundary laws. I was forced to go to this shit school until I was 16.

Fast forward to now. It's being taken over by the government and half the teachers were fired.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Tbh, all it takes is one teacher who gives a flying fuck. When I went from private schooling to public schooling I was dumb as a box of rocks, but one teacher would tutor me after school and got me going. Like I said, I was doing algebra, A.P algebra and chemistry by 7th/8th grade. It wasn't until high school that it all went downhill. Alcoholic teachers, teachers that would sleep in class, racist as fuck history teachers, etc... My one teacher wasn't even fucking accredited by the state to teach, yet he taught earth science and economics... Another teacher was arrested in front of the entire school for molesting a 14 year old girl, another for throwing a desk at a student.

When I wanted to swap to another school I couldn't because of boundary laws. I was forced to go to this shit school until I was 16.

Fast forward to now. It's being taken over by the government and half the teachers were fired.

The US Department of Education needs to be just completely done away with as all it has done is make things worse, not better.

[Loser]

What needs to be done away with is boundary laws. Let parents/kids pick what school they want to attend.

I could of gone to a far better high school then the one I did if I lived one block east. It's one of the only schools in the area that isn't on academic probation.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

What needs to be done away with is boundary laws. Let parents/kids pick what school they want to attend.

I could of gone to a far better high school then the one I did if I lived one block east. It's one of the only schools in the area that isn't on academic probation.

You can do that here in Colorado.

[Loser]

Yea, well, I lived in a hell hole :lol:

[PorkChopSandwiches]

The US Department of Education needs to be just completely done away with as all it has done is make things worse, not better.

Ron Paul for President

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Yea, well, I lived in a hell hole :lol:

No, I know what you're saying, when I was growing up in Vermont, you had to go the school in your district, there was no choice.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Ron Paul for President

Ron Paul will never be President, sorry.

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I dont know how it worked but I had to drive by 2 high schools to get to the one I was "assigned" to. It was ridiculousness

[PorkChopSandwiches]

Ron Paul will never be President, sorry.

I know, but I will keep hoping

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I dont know how it worked but I had to drive by 2 high schools to get to the one I was "assigned" to. It was ridiculousness

Gotta love it

[Acid Trip]

The US Department of Education needs to be just completely done away with as all it has done is make things worse, not better.

Liberals and teacher unions everywhere just let out a collective groan since you've employed common sense against them. Too bad common sense is so rare that people don't know it when they see it.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Liberals and teacher unions everywhere just let out a collective groan since you've employed common sense against them. Too bad common sense is so rare that people don't know it when they see it.

It's not the only cabinet level department I would get rid of, but it's a good place to start ;)

[Hal-9000]

I took English 30 in 1983 (grade 12 'high end' English)

They told us at the beginning of the semester that the previous graduating classes from 82, 81 and 80 had such poor writing skills entering university, that our entire term would be focused on essay, short story and poetry writing.

Had a great teacher so I was lucky...apparently some of the previous classes entering UNI were writing at a grade 8 level...


I think this move, along with 100% pc use in schools and universities is a very bad move and is already reflecting negatively on the type of student it produces.
My niece is in grade 12 this year.She doesn't use books and when the pc network is down at school, class is done for that day.

two words - LAY-ZEE

[Acid Trip]

I took English 30 in 1983 (grade 12 'high end' English)

They told us at the beginning of the semester that the previous graduating classes from 82, 81 and 80 had such poor writing skills entering university, that our entire term would be focused on essay, short story and poetry writing.

Had a great teacher so I was lucky...apparently some of the previous classes entering UNI were writing at a grade 8 level...


I think this move, along with 100% pc use in schools and universities is a very bad move and is already reflecting negatively on the type of student it produces.
My niece is in grade 12 this year.She doesn't use books and when the pc network is down at school, class is done for that day.

two words - LAY-ZEE

The teachers I hated the most in High School are the ones I most admire now. They put us through absolute hell but it was only to make sure we succeeded in life.

[AntZ]

So true. My boss mentions the pre-school his sons are in every fuggin' day :roll: He subtly works it into every mention of his kids.

I subtly showed him a news article on how useless pre-school has proven to be when compared to other countries with better education.... swallow that when you write the tuition cheques for your 4 year old.

My son just finished his second year of kindergarten, they start here when they are 4 1/2 and go until 6 1/2! He can read, write, and knows his numbers beyond 100. ALL in both English, Swiss German, and High German. We can give him random double digit numbers and he'll think for a moment and give us the correct number about 90% of the time. (Exp. 57 + 34 = ??) When he does miss them, it's usually off by one or so. Here, they are rather serious about learning time at school, my son even had gym class twice a week where they need to change cloths and do sports. Hell, when I was in kindergarten back in 1972, we never did anything like that!

[Hal-9000]

We had cookies and naptime in kindergarten :oops:

[Noilly Pratt]

I swear half the time I hear people talking about what pre-school their kids are in, it's all a status symbol thing to be spending the most money on the most expensive pre-school there is so they can one-up their friends.. The parents don't care if the kids are actually learning anything just so long as the kids are out of their hair for the day. :|

Exactly...we experienced that as early as the recovery room when our "baby" was born...the woman in the bed beside us were giddy with excitement: "We're going to go to Baby Gap and buy this and buy that and..." like the kid was a doll. I whisperered over to my wife "They don't have a fucking clue!" We were silent, steeling ourselves for what we knew was to come -- the 3am feedings etc etc... :)

Even though I'm taking advantage of it, it truly is a shame that if you live in a "good" district you usually can put your kid in a different catchment area. My daughter's just outside of hers because after I talked with the principal of the school in our area, he was a staunch "no child left behind" person, and my child was already reading for 2 years (at age 4) and I asked him what would she do for example when they were teaching the other kids how to read...ended up she would have to just sit there. I asked if she could be given lessons to further her ahead, say in other areas, but that's not the way it was done there.

In the school just a mile away - the one she's in now - still a public school but a little more progressive, they get a special class if you are learning slower than the others in your group. Then they have a different teacher for those who grasp things quickly, and at the end of the year it, for the most part, is fairly evened out.

Many parents complain about this, saying it unfairly "labels" the kids, but the kids learn and the principal is very mindful to build in lessons on tolerance and treating everyone fairly.


I took English 30 in 1983 (grade 12 'high end' English)

They told us at the beginning of the semester that the previous graduating classes from 82, 81 and 80 had such poor writing skills entering university, that our entire term would be focused on essay, short story and poetry writing.

Had a great teacher so I was lucky...apparently some of the previous classes entering UNI were writing at a grade 8 level...


I think this move, along with 100% pc use in schools and universities is a very bad move and is already reflecting negatively on the type of student it produces.
My niece is in grade 12 this year.She doesn't use books and when the pc network is down at school, class is done for that day.

two words - LAY-ZEE

Totally agree HAL and I graduated in '83 and was told the same thing in BC. And they spent time teaching us Shakespeare and poetry and other English elements. I may have disliked it at the time, but it got my mind wrapped around things that were difficult to learn and actually took effort.

[JoeyB]

Sorry I made a comment about Bush.. I didn't realize it was not ok to utter his name...


"Sorry I made a comment about Bush" (self deprecating and totally insincere) "I didn't realize it was no ok to utter his name" (trying to make me look like the bad guy when I never said that).

I see right through you Muddy.

I kind of have to back Muddy up here. He wasn't doing anything wrong dude.


We had cookies and naptime in kindergarten :oops:

You know, so did we. Funny thing is, when I was in grade school (during the seventies) if there was any shortage or need, the parents stepped up. My own mother came in every day for a year to serve as a classroom volunteer when I was in first grade.

Given, funding is even more limited now, but volunteering still costs nothing, yet less and less parents seem interested in helping out anymore.

[Southern Belle]

We're dumbing our kids down. They already don't have to know how to spell, or write in cursive. Why make them go to school at all? That would really save money.

[Godfather]

Think it's important to note parents are getting either lazier, or more focuses in having dual incomes or both...

Like I said, I know teachers and I know parents. Both seem to recognize the need for the other to smarten up.

[Jezter]

So... besides ripping the kids out of their childhood by putting them in some sort of kindergarten and such when they barely learn to utter out "dada" and "mama", they now are not required to know how to write anymore? And teachers can't use red pen to mark where they did wrong? And teachers probably are not allowed to raise their voice or show authority in any manner either? I don't understand how this can be... Getting the savings from something so fundamental as making sure everyone knows how to write well is just totally wrong...

What SB said here is what it makes me think pretty much.


We're dumbing our kids down. They already don't have to know how to spell, or write in cursive. Why make them go to school at all? That would really save money.


And yea, the observations about Nordic education, especially Finnish (We've been the top dog in PISA tests year in year out) are correct. We can be kids and do what kids do; play outdoors in the mud chasing bugs, riding bikes, playing footie and doing what kids do. Getting to spend time with our family instead of chucked into kindergarten/pre-school/whateveritis. I think that is important too. Go play with friends in the sandbox and learn how to socialize and act around other people by doing it in the yard playing games and such. When it is school time, it is school time. I guess our mentality is different.

[FBD]

Why did Bush start the 'no child left behind' program? All it has done is dumb down the entire education system.

Two words, that helped lead to the D glut in 2006 and O'travesty in 2008:

"Compassionate Conservatism"

Its the same source of fuckups as medicare part D, etc.

i.e.: tossing conservative values out the window in an attempt to gain some votes.

Dubya would have been a much better president if he hadnt spent so much time trying to do things that would make people have a more favorable opinion of him - regardless of whether or not it was fully intentional on his part, that's how it came out.




Needless to say, if or when I have children, they will be home schooled.

And it also appears that you have an idea of how much a favor you will be doing them :thumbsup: Its a tough thing to do, but it is the right thing. Were I to have another, it would be strictly home schooling until at least the age of 12...enough time to plant proper seeds and cultivate them to withstand the poison it would be subjected to having to go to normal school.





The teachers I hated the most in High School are the ones I most admire now. They put us through absolute hell but it was only to make sure we succeeded in life.
:thumbsup: But not so harsh as to discourage you from the subject altogether! Sometimes that's a fine line to have to walk.

[deebakes]

we need change... wasn't that what obama was going to do? :-k

[JoeyB]

We can be kids and do what kids do; play outdoors in the mud chasing bugs, riding bikes, playing footie and doing what kids do.

Mud? Clothes get dirty, parents sue school. Bugs? Kid gets bitten, school sued. Bikes? Kids fall over, school sued, maker of bike sued, parents sue manufacturer of helmet and kneepads for not including warning that children may fall off bike while wearing helmet and kneepads. Footie? Kid falls, scrapes knee, parents sue. Soccer ball determined to be 'dangerous'. Running an 'at risk' activity.


we need change... wasn't that what obama was going to do? :-k

I've got change, as long as you don't need more than four dollars worth.

[Southern Belle]

School curriculum seems to be centered around getting good scores on standardized tests, so I'm blaming the problem on standardized tests and the idiots who create them.