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View Full Version : Sen. Sasse Presents Bill Outlawing Infanticide — And One Senate Democrat Moves To Block It



Teh One Who Knocks
02-05-2019, 12:48 PM
Virginia Kruta | Associate Editor - The Daily Caller


https://i.imgur.com/k19oYCjl.jpg

Democratic Washington Sen. Patty Murray moved to block a measure Monday that would have outlawed infanticide.

The bill, presented by Republican Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse, was titled the “Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act” and would have offered medical care and legal protections to infants who survived attempted abortions.

Sasse addressed the topic from the Senate floor Monday evening, calling for unanimous consent and saying, “Frankly, this shouldn’t be hard.”
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Murray objected to the measure, saying that it was unnecessary to move forward since infanticide is already illegal — and her objection prevented the bill from receiving the support Sasse had asked for.

Sasse took up the effort following remarks from embattled Democratic Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam, who had been speaking in defense of a late-term abortion bill in his home state.

“We are actually talking about babies that have been born. The only debate on the floor tonight is about infanticide. . . . This is about fourth-trimester abortion,” Sasse said Monday. “Everyone in this Senate ought to be able to say that the little baby deserves life, that she has rights, and that killing her is wrong.”

Sasse’s effort is not the first attempt to protect infants who survive late-term abortions, either — and it’s not the first time a Democrat has moved to block the move. In 2002, former President George W. Bush signed a similar measure into law. One year later, Barack Obama voted against an identical bill in the Illinois Senate. In January 2018, H.R.4712 – Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act passed the House.

The push to legalize late-term abortions has hit several states — most notably New York, Virginia and Rhode Island — and has drawn criticism from Republicans, pro-life advocates and even physicians.

Dr. Omar Hamada, a former flight surgeon and theologian who appeared on Fox News to discuss New York’s recently-passed legislation expanding abortion rights, took to Twitter to explain why access to late-term abortions was not about the health of the mother or the child. “There’s not a single fetal or maternal condition that requires third trimester abortion,” he tweeted. “Not one. Delivery, yes. Abortion, no.”
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Former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop offered a similar take in 1980, saying, “Protection of the life of the mother as an excuse for an abortion is a smoke screen. In my 36 years of pediatric surgery, I have never known of one instance where the child had to be aborted to save the mother’s life. If toward the end of the pregnancy complications arise that threaten the mother’s health, the doctor will induce labor or perform a Cesarean section. His intention is to save the life of both the mother and the baby. The baby’s life is never willfully destroyed because the mother’s life is in danger.”

RBP
02-05-2019, 12:51 PM
"Progress"

DemonGeminiX
02-05-2019, 12:52 PM
Wow. That we even have to debate this. Just, wow.

Hal-9000
02-05-2019, 06:49 PM
Okay companion question based on recent discussions and news stories.

If a pregnant woman is killed, how old does the fetus have to be for two murder charges to be placed?

DemonGeminiX
02-05-2019, 08:49 PM
I don't know. That's a good question.

RBP
02-06-2019, 01:15 AM
Okay companion question based on recent discussions and news stories.

If a pregnant woman is killed, how old does the fetus have to be for two murder charges to be placed?


I don't know. That's a good question.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

Hal-9000
02-06-2019, 04:53 PM
That link says 29 states consider any post fertilization embryo a chargeable offense for murder.

And that is one of the worst things I've typed in a long list of distasteful things :|

Hal-9000
02-06-2019, 04:53 PM
* above means I agree with the ruling, just don't like envisioning the event that it covers.

DemonGeminiX
02-06-2019, 11:13 PM
See here's the problem: In some of those states, it's murder if a person other than the mother kills the zygote because it's a living being from conception, but it's not murder if it's an abortion, because it's not quite living if it can't live outside of the womb. So it's alive in certain cases, but not quite alive enough for this one case over there? How's that right? I know we don't live in a very rational world, but surely you can't have it both ways? You want some consistency. You wouldn't dare say that if it was a 5 year old child.

RBP
02-07-2019, 04:57 AM
See here's the problem: In some of those states, it's murder if a person other than the mother kills the zygote because it's a living being from conception, but it's not murder if it's an abortion, because it's not quite living if it can't live outside of the womb. So it's alive in certain cases, but not quite alive enough for this one case over there? How's that right? I know we don't live in a very rational world, but surely you can't have it both ways? You want some consistency. You wouldn't dare say that if it was a 5 year old child.

I completely understand your position. I have come to what should be a reasonable compromise. Anything prior to 22 weeks is not ours to judge. (I know 24, I am benefiting science for gaining 2 weeks in 45 years). Make it legal and accessible, but not free. Free leads to abuse. There is birth control, there is plan B, then after all that, she has 22 weeks. No further hand-holding is necessary. After that period (excuse the pun), get tough. Life of the mother is at eminent risk, okay. The baby has died in the womb, okay. Not much else. I am fine with requiring arbitration judges to hear emergency petitions in those cases.

And then stop. Just stop. Enough. We have been at this for 50 years. Settle it.

And use the same standard for criminal cases.

Teh One Who Knocks
02-07-2019, 10:32 AM
I completely understand your position. I have come to what should be a reasonable compromise. Anything prior to 22 weeks is not ours to judge. (I know 24, I am benefiting science for gaining 2 weeks in 45 years). Make it legal and accessible, but not free. Free leads to abuse. There is birth control, there is plan B, then after all that, she has 22 weeks. No further hand-holding is necessary. After that period (excuse the pun), get tough. Life of the mother is at eminent risk, okay. The baby has died in the womb, okay. Not much else. I am fine with requiring arbitration judges to hear emergency petitions in those cases.

And then stop. Just stop. Enough. We have been at this for 50 years. Settle it.

And use the same standard for criminal cases.

Agreed with all that, but you very well know that common sense has no place with anyone on the extreme side of this argument, either the pro-lifers or the pro-choicers.

Hal-9000
02-07-2019, 05:22 PM
I completely understand your position. I have come to what should be a reasonable compromise. Anything prior to 22 weeks is not ours to judge. (I know 24, I am benefiting science for gaining 2 weeks in 45 years). Make it legal and accessible, but not free. Free leads to abuse. There is birth control, there is plan B, then after all that, she has 22 weeks. No further hand-holding is necessary. After that period (excuse the pun), get tough. Life of the mother is at eminent risk, okay. The baby has died in the womb, okay. Not much else. I am fine with requiring arbitration judges to hear emergency petitions in those cases.

And then stop. Just stop. Enough. We have been at this for 50 years. Settle it.

And use the same standard for criminal cases.

For some reason, my view is different on term length when comparing abortion to killing a pregnant Mom.

As you say, establish a pregnancy term saying - You can not abort after ___ weeks.

Conversely, I think as long as a woman has been declared medically pregnant and killed, it should be considered as two deaths and two charges. Even if the embryo is at let's say 3 weeks.


:-k Not sure why I consider the situations with different time frames.