At least 49 dead in 'terrorist' shootings at 2 New Zealand mosques, 4 nabbed, IEDs found

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

So how does the government know what you own? For example you want to buy a new handgun. Go to the store, pick one and then you have a background check done based on your picture ID I would suppose, wait whatever waiting time the state demands, then you go back a second time to pick it up? Is that close to actual?

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As far as I know, there is no real way for the government to know what firearms a person has.some cities (and states) require all firearms to be registered, most dont. This is why I take any discussion about firearms in the US with a hefty grain of salt. Any numbers used in said discussion are guesses at best, more typically skewed towards whatever point the narrator is trying to make. I'm not necessarily against registration of firearms, nor do I think it would be a bad thing with current federal government. Where the fed is heading (witness current hard trend towards socialism) on the other hand, no way do I want those nuts knowing what I have.

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Originally Posted by KevinD

As far as I know, there is no real way for the government to know what firearms a person has.some cities (and states) require all firearms to be registered, most dont. This is why I take any discussion about firearms in the US with a hefty grain of salt. Any numbers used in said discussion are guesses at best, more typically skewed towards whatever point the narrator is trying to make. I'm not necessarily against registration of firearms, nor do I think it would be a bad thing with current federal government. Where the fed is heading (witness current hard trend towards socialism) on the other hand, no way do I want those nuts knowing what I have.

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Yeah I'm of a like mind. If I'm a responsible gun owner I'd have no problem registering them. And it may be a small deterrent to people considering using them to harm someone during daily disputes. Not thinking of the mass shooters in this instance because they're a different breed of gun user.

Reason for the questions is because this NZ guy went through the country's processes properly, no red flags were raised and I have to admit the idea of what happened is disturbing. I'm trying to think of what could be done to lessen or prevent this shit from happening.


Thanks for the input/info everyone, very illuminating. I gotta duck out to pick up some supplies, brb :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by KevinD

As far as I know, there is no real way for the government to know what firearms a person has.some cities (and states) require all firearms to be registered, most dont. This is why I take any discussion about firearms in the US with a hefty grain of salt. Any numbers used in said discussion are guesses at best, more typically skewed towards whatever point the narrator is trying to make. I'm not necessarily against registration of firearms, nor do I think it would be a bad thing with current federal government. Where the fed is heading (witness current hard trend towards socialism) on the other hand, no way do I want those nuts knowing what I have.

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Thats why every gun I own is bought used. :tup:

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Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks

:umno:

Every single state requires an NICS background check when buying a gun from a licensed dealer. There is no way around that, it's federal law.

EDIT: unless you have a license in Texas where you have to keep renewing it to see if you are now prohibited from buying a gun, because that status is always subject to change if you break certain laws.

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In some states, our carry/weapons license is our background check, but we still have to fill out the ATF transfer form. And yeah, in GA, it's renewed every 5 years. I have to renew mine in 2021. I can walk into any gun shop, flop down my weapons license on the counter, point to any gun and say "I'll take that one", fill out the ATF transfer form, pay for the gun, and then leave with my new gun.

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Originally Posted by DemonGeminiX

In some states, our carry/weapons license is our background check, but we still have to fill out the ATF transfer form. And yeah, in GA, it's renewed every 5 years. I have to renew mine in 2021. I can walk into any gun shop, flop down my weapons license on the counter, point to any gun and say "I'll take that one", fill out the ATF transfer form, pay for the gun, and then leave with my new gun.

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I would assume then in states like that, if you commit a felony or any other crime that would revoke your right to own a firearm, the LEA would inform the state to revoke your license?

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Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks

The federal government does not track who owns what.

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Allegedly. If we all had a dime for each time they said they weren't doing something but we found out later that they were...

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Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks

I would assume then in states like that, if you commit a felony or any other crime that would revoke your right to own a firearm, the LEA would inform the state to revoke your license?

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Yeah, I think so.

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

So there's no database connection between you and the new weapon.

Remembering the mob movies where guys do hits in broad daylight and then drop the guns at the site. I used to think watching - Well someone has gotta own that gun at one point! Trace it!

Didn't realize the process was like that.

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If they search my name they shouldn't see that I own anything. But if they find a gun used in a crime and search the serial they can trace it back to bill of sale and find my name that way. If I sold the gun to someone else the trail ends there unless I know who I sold it to or the new owner voluntarily registers it.

As far as crime goes I'd think most guns used are likely stolen. Most guns found by cops are either stolen or confiscated because they are breaking the laws by having a loaded weapon in a car or having one concealed without proper license.

Here in Ohio currently I go to the store, pick out a gun, get the background check and 10 minutes later upon passing I take it to the register and buy it.

Transporting in a car guns have to be unloaded and locked in a compartment and separate from ammo. (gun in trunk, ammo in glovebox, etc).

IF I get a concealed carry license which requires a more thorough background check I believe at a State Trooper post, 8 hours of training, etc I can carry concealed, can carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle. If I get pulled over the cop should see I have a CCL when he runs my tags and I would be required to notify him IMMEDIATELY that I'm armed when he approaches my car. Not sure if I'd be required to register at least one of my guns.

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Originally Posted by DemonGeminiX

Allegedly. If we all had a dime for each time they said they weren't doing something but we found out later that they were...

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Yep, they say they don't keep a database of NICS checks but I am skeptical about that.

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Originally Posted by Pony

... But if they find a gun used in a crime and search the serial they can trace it back to bill of sale and find my name that way. If I sold the gun to someone else the trail ends there unless I know who I sold it to or the new owner voluntarily registers it...

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This is the kind of thing I'm curious about. It can't be so anonymous that after something happens the authorities have no way to locate the weapon's owner. And yes I understand that a lot of crimes are committed using stolen and less than legal firearms.

In trials they use the ballistic striations on the bullets and match that to specific guns. Only thing is, they have to get the gun first to attempt the match. And have a leftover casing intact enough to do the comparison in the first place. Homicide forensics fascinate me because of the work involved when they do nail someone based on evidence.

I'm likely a minority here but if I owned a firearm I wouldn't have any issue with government factions (keep seeing NICS mentioned in posts here) checking on my safe and legal purchases. In fact, if it exonerates me from a crime all the better.

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

I'm likely a minority here but if I owned a firearm I wouldn't have any issue with government factions (keep seeing NICS mentioned in posts here) checking on my safe and legal purchases. In fact, if it exonerates me from a crime all the better.

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A lot of that stems from our inherent mistrust in government. IF we could trust that mandatory registration would never lead to confiscation, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
The anti gun people were just saying a couple years ago "No one wants to take your guns away, you're paranoid". Now some states have already passed "assault weapon" bans which are so broadly worded they cover almost all semi-auto rifles, not just AR type. In those area's mandatory registration has already led to armed men knocking on doors to take guns away from otherwise law abiding people. And the left keeps saying they want to make those bans Federal.

When they successfully ban rifles and shootings continue, they will simply ban semi-auto handguns, and on and on til no one has the right to own anything.

I have a little .22 rifle that's good for target practice and small game. Not much else. It holds a 10 round mag. Under some of the proposals I've seen it would fall under the "assault" weapons ban simply because the mag is detachable. Fat chance I will register it.

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

I'm likely a minority here but if I owned a firearm I wouldn't have any issue with government factions (keep seeing NICS mentioned in posts here) checking on my safe and legal purchases. In fact, if it exonerates me from a crime all the better.

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That's actually how it is up here (not sure if you knew that already and were just making the point)! There are 'classes' for firearms. A hunting rifle is non-restricted so you just need a firearms license which means you took a short course, passed an exam, and background check including calls to three sponsors. But if you have 'restricted' weapons like assault rifles and handguns, it's a bit more hoop-jumping to get that license, you need to file a permit showing your a member or a range to transport it (because you can't shoot restricted weapons on government land/forests like you can non-restricted), and thirdly the government can come and inspect to ensure you're locking it up according to the strict laws. I know gun owners who've have the RCMP come and inspect their safes when they're installing them just to make sure it's all kosher, because you don't want to get caught fucking up your storage.

Here's why we don't want t register our guns. This guy tried to abide by the law and paid the consequences.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6Lyeeq17fY

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Originally Posted by Godfather

That's actually how it is up here (not sure if you knew that already and were just making the point)! There are 'classes' for firearms. A hunting rifle is non-restricted so you just need a firearms license which means you took a short course, passed an exam, and background check including calls to three sponsors. But if you have 'restricted' weapons like assault rifles and handguns, it's a bit more hoop-jumping to get that license, you need to file a permit showing your a member or a range to transport it (because you can't shoot restricted weapons on government land/forests like you can non-restricted), and thirdly the government can come and inspect to ensure you're locking it up according to the strict laws. I know gun owners who've have the RCMP come and inspect their safes when they're installing them just to make sure it's all kosher, because you don't want to get caught fucking up your storage.

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Good info and thanks but is there method in place for us in terms of a particular firearm being attached to your name in some way? Serial number = name and address sort of thing?

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

Good info and thanks but is there method in place for us in terms of a particular firearm being attached to your name in some way? Serial number = name and address sort of thing?

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Yes, restricted firearms are registered to your name and address, and again you can't even transport them without the proper permits. The law is even such that when you transport a registered firearm you must go straight to the range and home, can't even leave it in your vehicle unattended to grab a slurpee :lol:

Non-restricted firearms like hunting rifles and .22's are no longer registered to your name (still need a license renewed every 5 years to buy/own them). You might remember it was a big debate when the conservatives ditched the Long Gun Registry for non-restricted weapons maybe 5-8 years back. These are weapons limited to 5 round capacity, no 'black rifles' or anything with a short barrel length or handguns, basically hunting rifles and pump action shotguns owned by hunters and sport shooters. It was extremely expensive to maintain a registry on these types of guns (over $500 million over its lifetime of 20 years), 92% of police officers polled said they didn't find it useful, and there was no evidence it had done anything to curb gun violence in places where it's an issue like Toronto, because at the end of the day if you want a gun for nefarious purposes you can go buy a handgun off the streets no problem.

Don't get me wrong, I support the restricted firearms laws and registry, but the non-restricted registry was a bit much. My uncle was RCMP in a rural community and said they basically stopped even checking on their way to calls because everyone has a hunting rifle up north, don't need a registry to tell you that :lol:

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Originally Posted by Pony

A lot of that stems from our inherent mistrust in government. IF we could trust that mandatory registration would never lead to confiscation, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
The anti gun people were just saying a couple years ago "No one wants to take your guns away, you're paranoid". Now some states have already passed "assault weapon" bans which are so broadly worded they cover almost all semi-auto rifles, not just AR type. In those area's mandatory registration has already led to armed men knocking on doors to take guns away from otherwise law abiding people. And the left keeps saying they want to make those bans Federal.

When they successfully ban rifles and shootings continue, they will simply ban semi-auto handguns, and on and on til no one has the right to own anything.

I have a little .22 rifle that's good for target practice and small game. Not much else. It holds a 10 round mag. Under some of the proposals I've seen it would fall under the "assault" weapons ban simply because the mag is detachable. Fat chance I will register it.

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Yes that falls into the discussion of what a particular individual considers necessary in terms of a weapon. I have my own thoughts on the need of semi automatic and automatic weapons in average joe's hands, but that's a different discussion.

I believe your country is allowed a broader spectrum of freedoms concerning gun ownership when compared to the rest of the world. Yeah you're right, it does sound a little paranoid hearing that fear of - The government may confiscate all of the guns from the entire civilian population if we start registering them or some sort of specific ownership system is put into place. If a country gets to that tipping point where the government calls for a mass removal of the public's weapons, I suspect the events behind that act will overshadow any clerical aspect of trying to locate the gun owners. Simply put the announcement itself will likely start a war. Interesting discussion again maybe for later.

Getting away from inherit mistrust in government for a moment, I read an article from someone in the military. He did two tours in Iraq and was involved in firefights and skirmishes. He said the thing that bothers him about civilian gun ownership is the lack of training before purchase. He outlined how much training he had to go through, and also listed training necessary for police officers in his state. He said his military experience was nothing like the movies. In wartime the soldiers in his unit didn't have the ability to constantly carry firearms around. The guns had to be issued before and after specific missions. His point was that he finds it (his words) unusually worrisome that civilians without any form of training or experience can use whatever number of and type of weapons their state allows. He didn't restrict this critique to the US, saying that prospective civilian buyers from any country should have to demonstrate aptitude first.

I agree with the idea and brought it up because the world is going to watch New Zealand and see how their new reform will impact life there. And make no mistake, I do support private ownership and always have a moment of personal rejoicing when I hear the odd story about Grandpa Bill shooting a home invader. Protection is the top reason in my mind for having a weapon in the first place.

Not sure if you heard about it. We had a horrible event on a Greyhound bus up here a few years ago. Guy with a large knife sat beside a young stranger at the back of the bus and proceeded to stab him until dead, and then it got really fucking bizarre. If one person had a gun on this bus, the outcome may have been different.

Check out the five paragraphs in the Incident section below when you have a moment. It was nightmare fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean