Russian government caught changing Wikipedia entry on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17: report

BY David Harding - NEW YORK DAILY NEWS


http://i.imgur.com/g4O9Drz.jpg

The Russian government has reportedly been trying to tamper with the Wikipedia page relating to the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight tragedy.

A Twitter bot that keeps watch on Wikipedia pages edited by Moscow spotted major changes to an entry about the crash.

A Russian language page originally said that the plane was "shot down by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic.”

http://i.imgur.com/39M1OiD.jpg

This was subsequently changed to was "shot down by Ukrainian soldiers."

The edit was discovered by an automated Twitter account @RUGoveEdits, which keeps an eye on changes to Wikipedia made by the Russian government, reports The Telegraph.

So far, the Russian government has denied any responsibility for the crash that left 298 people dead.

Despite many pointing the finger at the Russian-backed rebels, Moscow said Ukraine bears "responsibility" for the tragedy.

President Obama said the passenger plane, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

Amazing all the news that is not even ON in this country.

So tell us, then, why did Ukranian airspace tell the plane to fly at 33,000 feet instead of its usual 55,000??? Why was the normal altitude 'restricted'??

'Splain that one to me, pseudo government in Kiev!!!

Doesn't matter FBD, the rocket that shot down the plane could reach 75,000 feet and was radar guided.

I'm starting to think that FBD is Russian.


Russia should pay heavily for this whole shindig. Unfortunately, because they're a permanent member of the UN, it'll never happen.

We should recall our ambassadors from Russia and boot theirs from here; bar Russian banks from our financial system, and discount natural gas we produce and sell it to Europe to replace Russian sales.

Would probably get better results than putting Secretary of State Kerry on the talk show circuit to orate the Russians to death.

your math is a little off, loser

Reuters points out:

Quote:

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As Russia and Ukraine trade blame over the apparent shooting down of a Malaysian airliner, they appear to agree on one thing: the type of Soviet-era missile that brought it down.

But if an SA-11 Buk missile, known as “Gadfly” in NATO, struck the aircraft and killed all 298 on board, that won’t solve the mystery of who did it: Russia, Ukraine and Russian-speaking rebels have all claimed the missile in their arsenals.

---

Quote:

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BUK/SA-11 by the numbers:

Simultaneous targets (when used with radar and command post): 18

Slant range: 9800 meters 6.08 miles

Altitude: 22,000 metres 13.67 miles

Speed of rockets launched:3,000 km/hr

---

So since all sides seem to agree that this was an SA-11, it was close to impossible for the site they pointed the finger at to have shot this plane down. But it still seems that everyone wants to refuse to consider an air to air missile having taken this plane down...it seems the SA-11 was fingered as the obvious ground based method. The next step up in SA missile is much much more complex than the SA-11 buk system, I dont know how they ruled it out other than "no way the separatists had that setup." But the Russians know exactly what they sold to the Ukranian military. And many of the system's capabilities see boosted by some reports, what I quoted above was a little lower than what was on wiki's SA-11 page, for example.

Did you see the story about a Ukranian fighter jet getting shot down on the same day? (would not be surprised if you didnt.) Of course, the Russians were shooting down quite a few of Ukraine's military planes, on a regular basis. You dont hear that reported in our media here. You dont see the shit like Ukranian military shelling a town in eastern ukr and killing 60 people, like happened in the last couple days.


http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741521
Kiev’s evidence of militia’s responsibility for airliner crash faked - expert
“This audio recording is not an integral file and is made up of several fragments,” said Nikolai Popov, a reputable expert in sound and voice analysis.

and also consider that no actual information about the plane, its type, origin, flight # etc, are mentioned in that "recording."


Or if you consider that supposedly a plane carrying Putin was in a very similar window...

Quote:

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http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014...craig-roberts/

The Interfax news agency citing anonymous sources, apparently air traffic controllers, reported that the Malaysian airliner and Putin’s airliner were traveling almost the identical route within a few minutes of one another. Interfax quotes its source: “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft at 15:44 Moscow time. The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical.”

I have not seen an official Russian denial, but according to news reports, the Russian government in response to the Interfax news report said that Putin’s presidential plane no longer flies the Ukraine route since the outbreak of hostilities.

---

So why then would Kiev do this...

BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."

Because they dont want people to know that the air traffic controllers were directed to tell the plane to fly abnormally low.

Quote:

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As Star Tribune reports,

Rebels have recovered the black boxes from downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 and will hand them over to the International Civil Aviation Organization, a rebel leader said Sunday

---

and the "west?" (or would youo like me to just say, at the behest of the international banking cartel,)

Quote:

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The US is pushing the "Russia is responsible" meme harder this weekend...

The U.S. embassy in Kiev issued a strong statement Sunday pointing to Russian complicity in arming the rebels, saying it has concluded "that Flight MH17 was likely downed by a SA-11 surface-to-air missile from separatist-controlled territory in eastern Ukraine."



It said over the weekend of July 12-13, "Russia sent a convoy of military equipment with up to 150 vehicles, including tanks armored personnel carriers artillery, and multiple rockets launchers" to the separatists. The statement also said Russia was training separatist fighters in southwest Russia, including on air defense systems.

And the rest of The West...

In a blistering article for the Sunday Times, British Prime Minister David Cameron called the attack a "direct result of Russia destabilizing a sovereign state, violating its territorial integrity, backing thuggish militias and training and arming them."



"We must turn this moment of outrage into a moment of action," he wrote.



In a coded rebuke of German Chancellor Angela Merkel and other European leaders who have blocked efforts to impose tougher sanctions on Russian President Vladimir Putin for Russia's actions in Ukraine, Cameron said Europe must now "respond robustly."



"For too long, there has been a reluctance on the part of too many European countries to face up to the implications of what is happening in eastern Ukraine," Cameron wrote.



Dutch Foreign Minister Frans Timmermans, speaking in Kiev, demanded that the culprits be found.



"Once we have the proof, we will not stop until the people are brought to justice

---

Quote:

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Here is Putin's speech from yesterday

And a transcript:

In connection with the terrible tragic events that happened in the skies over Donetsk, I would like to explain once again Russian attitude to events that are taking place in Ukraine.

We have repeatedly called on all parties of the conflict to immediately stop the bloodshed and sit down at the negotiating table. We strongly believe that if military action in the East of Ukraine was not renewed on the 28th of June, this tragedy most likely wouldn’t have happened. However, no one should have the right to use this tragedy to pursue egoistic political aims. Such events should unite and not divide people. It is necessary that all the people who are accounted for the situation in the region took more responsibility and reported to their own people and to the peoples of those countries whose representatives have become victims of this disaster.

Everything must be done to ensure the safety of international experts on the crash scene. Today representatives of Donbass, Donetsk, representatives of Ministry of Emergency Situations of Ukraine and Malaysian experts are already working there. But this is not enough. It is necessary to ensure that at the crash site works a full team of experts under the auspices of ICAO, the corresponding international commission. We must do everything to provide them with full and absolute security and all humanitarian corridors necessary for their operation.

In its turn, Russia will do everything possible to transfer the conflict in Eastern Ukraine from today's military phase to a discussion at the negotiating table, using exclusively peaceful and diplomatic means.

---

Now who seems like they want to do what?


















We're all being lied to, YET AGAIN. The information is out there, if you care to go look for it.

Putin's full of shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DemonGeminiX

I'm starting to think that FBD is Russian.


Russia should pay heavily for this whole shindig. Unfortunately, because they're a permanent member of the UN, it'll never happen.

---

:lol: my great grumps was from Kyiv, Russia...and refused to ever acknowledge the creation of the country of Ukraine. but that is entirely aside the point, because I am more interested in calling balls and strikes instead of making sure "my team" wins at any and all costs.

your second statement is *exactly* to a T what the intended reaction this propaganda was designed to elicit.

and wrt the OP - anyone can edit a wiki entry when they see something that is obviously incorrect, right? that's been my experience with it, I went and rewrote some wiki postings on internal alchemy before.

So you are a Russian, you commie bastard!!!

:x




I sincerely believe that Putin and the Russian government is aiding the rebels in an attempt to regain the territories they lost when the Soviet Union fell. The Ukraine technically was never it's own country until '91, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be their own country now. But now, since our President is a fucking pussy, Mr Ex-KGB Putin feels there's no one to stop him from doing this duplicitous shit. It's their way. The Russians won't respect us because we're weaker, and everybody else is expecting us to be the world police to keep Russia in line.

:lol: as it has been created, as it has been told...

I sincerely think that the international banking cartel believe any means will justify the ends of indebting any and all nations to them. You see what they have done to the US, to all these countries in europe...anyone that has gone against the petrodollar has been murdered, like saddam and khaddafi (brutal as they were, brutal only becomes a problem when they want gold for their oil instead of dollars...) and starting a war is not past them. All of these wars have been started by these people. This MH11 situation is an attempt at another Franz Ferdinand setup.

And as far as regaining territories for Russia, go look at the gas pipelines, that's all I gotta say. You think Ukraine, Crimea is strategic for no reason? 50 years of NATO containment strategy, hoss. You can see that, right?


After all the nefarious shit that our government has done...believing a story simply because "it was told by your side" is....how can I word this non offensively...

Critical thinking skills havent been taught in schools in forever for a reason.

Is there any other reason conceivable that Russia would do this? Is war some guarantee for them to "recover lost lands?" Not at all.

Is there any conceivable reason for US-EU-NATO-IMF alphabet soup to do this? Attack and isolate Russia as a containment strategy, who benefits from Russia losing their ability to get gas to the sea via those pipelines in ukraine and crimea???

ALWAYS ASK CUI BONO!!!! Who benefits from these actions?

You dont even see the atrocities committed by the figureheads installed in kiev, it is not reported - WHY....the media reports only what its told to!

I call them figureheads because I went and researched all the information about how this situation came about there. They are figureheads installed by a coup that nobody reported.

"serparatists" dont want to be under the IMF's thumb and have their grandchildren indebted to the international banking cartel? well hell we must eradicate them!!! I dont want my grandchildren indebted to them either, but I have no choice as it was already done long long ago.


Russians do not necessarily want to be "on the side" of the international banking cartel (even though they do significant business with them it appears...but then again, any country that does business...) and that's a bad thing? :lol: No, no. It is a good thing, trust me.

It sucks when your leaders are on the wrong side of a conflict, pushing as hard as they can towards outright war, what do you do about it.

Quote:

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Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:

RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSpeo5RcQQo

Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:

RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax

The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.IMHO Lugansk is also out of the correct range for an SA-11 attack...



"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:

RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK

And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...reengrab_0.jpg

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...%20MH%2017.png



“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.



“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.



“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”



The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

---

I did say air to air, right :lol: that was just by my own logic.

Quote:

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And asks for US proof of their accusations:

RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it?
RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"

---

10 questions for the Ukranian gov:

Quote:

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1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?



2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?



3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?



4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?



5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?



6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?



7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?



8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?



9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?



10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed guilt official Kiev

---

now enough of these emotional based decisions and appeals, let's get some fuggin facts going on here. who's got the substantive things to say, the substantive questions, and who has information they are keeping secret?


that tells you all you need to know,

alllllmost as much as simply watching tower #7 tells you all you need to know about whether the government's story on 9-11 was fabricated or not ;)

Once again, how are you related to Sertes?

:lol:

how am I related :lol: the only similarity I know of is that we've both concluded the US government is a criminal enterprise that planned and executed 9-11. from the molten metal pouring out of the middle of the tower (jet fuel does not burn hot enough, simple as that) to 7 just dropping in a blatantly controlled demolition (which led me to conclude this was 93's destination had it not been interrupted....those people didnt know that by taking action they foiled the government and produced a smoking gun)...to the hole in the pentagon that just does not have any impact zone for a plane engine/wings to have hit...

sorry fellas if you still believe the 9-11 story...please examine the bias in your judgement. I did, it took me quite a few years to accept the fact, but the evidence is irrefutable if you examine it without prejudgement or heart based belief that "something like that couldn't happen."

:dance:

So what about all of the debunking 911 vids and articles?

If the US government is willing to kill 3000 innocent souls to further an agenda, don't you think they'd take a less complex direction? As in, a lot of pegs had to line up that September morning for a conspiracy to work, including the piloting of commercial airliners into the Trade Center buildings. Because that did happen, no matter what tales conspiracy theorists want to postulate.

We have the Muslim hi-jackers training at flight centers, same group caught on cameras boarding the various planes, we have Bin Laden claiming responsibility - putting himself, his family and his high level coworkers in immediate jeopardy, we have multiple engineers saying that yes - 400 tons of jet fuel after an impact of that magnitude would definitely weaken a 40 year old structure..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

So what about all of the debunking 911 vids and articles?

If the US government is willing to kill 3000 innocent souls to further an agenda, don't you think they'd take a less complex direction? As in, a lot of pegs had to line up that September morning for a conspiracy to work, including the piloting of commercial airliners into the Trade Center buildings. Because that did happen, no matter what tales conspiracy theorists want to postulate.

We have the Muslim hi-jackers training at flight centers, same group caught on cameras boarding the various planes, we have Bin Laden claiming responsibility - putting himself, his family and his high level coworkers in immediate jeopardy, we have multiple engineers saying that yes - 400 tons of jet fuel after an impact of that magnitude would definitely weaken a 40 year old structure..

---

Don't you dare try and bring logic and common sense into a crazy conspiracy theory :nono:

:hand: The Evil Dead not getting best picture Oscar in 1981 was a conspiracy...911 was a tragedy committed by Al-Qaeda, not Al-Gore

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

So what about all of the debunking 911 vids and articles?

If the US government is willing to kill 3000 innocent souls to further an agenda, don't you think they'd take a less complex direction? As in, a lot of pegs had to line up that September morning for a conspiracy to work, including the piloting of commercial airliners into the Trade Center buildings. Because that did happen, no matter what tales conspiracy theorists want to postulate.

We have the Muslim hi-jackers training at flight centers, same group caught on cameras boarding the various planes, we have Bin Laden claiming responsibility - putting himself, his family and his high level coworkers in immediate jeopardy, we have multiple engineers saying that yes - 400 tons of jet fuel after an impact of that magnitude would definitely weaken a 40 year old structure..

---

:hand:

do you also recall bin laden saying he was going to reveal the truth to the american people and it would shock the hell out of them? Why do you think he was immediately killed, and KSM's point of view was NEVER released to the public because "its all classified?" (well...what is so classified? what is so damaging that such information cannot be known by the general public, only high level government and military officials are allowed to see such info?)

regardless of how you want to bring these factors together - the fact remains that there is a smoking gun in comparing the demolition of 7 to the "official government sanctioned story of HERE IS TEH TROOF," so honestly the rest of these logistics are trivial.

if the gub had nothing to hide then why did they put out a blatant lie as the official truth of what happened? go in the conspiracy thread and watch the vid I just posted and you tell me that is not a demolition ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FBD

:hand:

do you also recall bin laden saying he was going to reveal the truth to the american people and it would shock the hell out of them? Why do you think he was immediately killed, and KSM's point of view was NEVER released to the public because its all classified?

regardless of how you want to bring these factors together - the fact remains that there is a smoking gun in comparing the demolition of 7 to the "official government sanctioned story of HERE IS TEH TROOF," so honestly the rest of these logistics are trivial.

---

Immediately killed?


Over 10 years later??


[-( he could have sent a few carrier pigeons in that time

:lol: immediately, as in, the instant one of our forces saw him, there was a bullet in his head


by presidential direction, no less

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FBD

:hand:

do you also recall bin laden saying he was going to reveal the truth to the american people and it would shock the hell out of them? Why do you think he was immediately killed, and KSM's point of view was NEVER released to the public because "its all classified?" (well...what is so classified? what is so damaging that such information cannot be known by the general public, only high level government and military officials are allowed to see such info?)

regardless of how you want to bring these factors together - the fact remains that there is a smoking gun in comparing the demolition of 7 to the "official government sanctioned story of HERE IS TEH TROOF," so honestly the rest of these logistics are trivial.

if the gub had nothing to hide then why did they put out a blatant lie as the official truth of what happened? go in the conspiracy thread and watch the vid I just posted and you tell me that is not a demolition ;)

---

Because one building fell that wasn't struck by a plane...which sat less that 4 city blocks from the destruction that did occur that day...and that's the smoking gun that says the rest of it was a fabrication?


:lol: you're losing me mate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FBD

:lol: immediately, as in, the instant one of our forces saw him, there was a bullet in his head


by presidential direction, no less

---

so he had a bombshell of a secret and couldn't get word or proof out the masses within a 10 year span?


pretty thin dude :lol: he could have exonerated himself from being the worst mass murderer in history by sending one video to Reuters or getting a letter out via his helpers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FBD

:lol: immediately, as in, the instant one of our forces saw him, there was a bullet in his head


by presidential direction, no less

---

Did you read the SEAL's book or watch The 60 Minutes special on how things went down in that compound...pretty scary and interesting stuff.

Hal, you have to have seen controlled demolitions before, no? it is a science. The slightest fuckup and the building does not drop in its own footprint, it tips over unevenly.

Are you trying to tell me that some office fires - and remember, no substantial pieces of 1 or 2 hit 7 - made this building drop perfectly in its own footprint???

This is OT for this thread...so if it is desired to continue this in the conspiracy corner, I can respect that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

so he had a bombshell of a secret and couldn't get word or proof out the masses within a 10 year span?


pretty thin dude :lol: he could have exonerated himself from being the worst mass murderer in history by sending one video to Reuters or getting a letter out via his helpers

---

It sounded like he eventually wanted to get it told but knew if he came right out and said so then the government had its story and would be immediately countered...I dont pretend to have all the answers but I can recognize a fake bullshit story when I've investigated it enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FBD

Hal, you have to have seen controlled demolitions before, no? it is a science. The slightest fuckup and the building does not drop in its own footprint, it tips over unevenly.

Are you trying to tell me that some office fires - and remember, no substantial pieces of 1 or 2 hit 7 - made this building drop perfectly in its own footprint???

This is OT for this thread...so if it is desired to continue this in the conspiracy corner, I can respect that.

---

sounds good...too much of a tangent for the thread subject matter :thumbsup:

Back to topic:

Quote:

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Jacob Dreizin, a US citizen who speaks Russian and reads Ukrainian provided this update three hours ago.

Hello Mish,



On Friday, the Daily Mail, one of the major UK tabloids carried photos and video of what was alleged to be a rebel “Buk” launcher heading back to Russia. The article carried a claim from some Ukrainian source that the launcher was missing several missiles after having shot them at the Malaysian 777. The article was prominently linked to the Drudge Report, and so was probably viewed by several million people.



Today, this meme made it into Uncle Sam’s official narrative, as per the following New York Times excerpt:



On the CBS program “Face the Nation,” Mr. Kerry referred to a video that the Ukrainians have made public showing an SA-11 unit heading back to Russia after the downing of the plane with “a missing missile or so.”



The video referenced by the New York Times was, in fact, posted on the Facebook account of the Ukrainian Interior Minister. The allegation was that the launcher was crossing the border with Russia.



However, going by the billboard and other features of the scenery, Russian bloggers and news sources claim to have identified the road in the video as having been taken in or near the town of Krasnoarmeisk (“Krasnoarmiysk” in Ukrainian), which has been under Kiev’s control since May.



In fact, the billboard is supposedly advertising a Krasnoarmeisk car dealership. Also, one of the structures in the background is said to be a construction materials store on Gorkii Street, Krasnoarmeisk.



Please note that this town is (very roughly) 120 kilometers from the Russian border and 80 kilometers from where the Malaysian 777 went down. And again, it has been under Kiev’s control since May.



At least one other clip of the “Russian Buk” that has been made available also suggests that the Ukrainians are showing their own equipment. I’m still working on researching that one for you.



Jacob

---

so in other words, about as real as the AR-15 in sandy hook...a complete fabrication-media-suggestion.

Quote:

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It is beyond incredibly sloppy for Ukraine to release such a video with a clear billboard of something in Ukraine-held territory, purportedly showing a Buk missile launcher headed back to Russia.



And we are supposed to believe Kiev? Kerry?



Please be serious. If you are really interested in the truth, you do not resort to such easily disproved and sloppy bullsheet.

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsbC8yDeGUw

Quote:

---

And then there's the curiouser and curiouser story of Carlos, the Spanish air traffic controller working at Kiev's tower, who was following MH17 in real time. For some Carlos is legit - not a cipher; for others, he's never even worked in Ukraine. Anyway he tweeted like mad. His account - not accidentally - has been shut down, and he has disappeared; his friends are now desperately looking for him. I managed to read all his tweets in Spanish when the account was still online - and now copies and an English translation are available.

These are some of his crucial tweets:

"The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48 pm)"
"If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)"
"As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)"
"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don't believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)"
"The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn't. (7.15)"
"The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)"

Assuming Carlos is legit, the assessment makes sense. The Ukrainian military are divided between Chocolate king President Petro Poroshenko - who would like a d?tente with Russia essentially to advance his shady business interests - and Saint Yulia Timoshenko, who's on the record advocating genocide of ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine. US neo-cons and US "military advisers" on the ground are proverbially hedging their bets, supporting both the Poroshenko and Timoshenko factions.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central...01-190714.html

---

:-k

Russia 'Told Rebels To Hide MH17's Black Boxes'
http://news.sky.com/story/1304439/ru...7s-black-boxes



more evidence that video was a fake

Quote:

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Quelling some conspiracies - though we are sure more will come on 'tampering' - the Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak issued a statement confirming it has reached an agreement on the MH17 investigation...

MALAYSIA SAYS BLACK BOXES TO BE HANDED OVER TO MALAYSIAN TEAM

Of course, this means the "credibility" of the latest YouTube clip from Ukraine, which "supposedly" revealed that the "rebels" were instructed by Moscow to hide the black boxes will be severly questioned, or would be if there was anyone out there still questioning anything in the relentless propaganda barrage. Actually scratch that: said clip will now promptly disappear from social networks, period.

As AP reports,

Malaysia's prime minister reaches deal with rebel leader to allow "safe access" to crash site.

Furthermore,

MALAYSIA SAYS IT HAS ESTABLISHED AGREEMENT ON MH17 BODIES
MALAYSIA SAYS BODIES TO LEAVE FOR THE NETHERLANDS

The timing of the handover of the black boxes is 9pm Ukraine time.

---

what was that again about russia pointing out the fact that US satellites were overhead at the time...

http://www.infowars.com/whistleblowe...ing-down-mh17/

Whistleblower: U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E



"Proof of a cover-up is proof of a conspiracy"

Obligatory Obama admin response :

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White House spokesman Josh Earnest says Russia's denials of complicity in MH17 downing are 'getting more desperate and harder to believe'

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:lol: and who says Progressives dont live in in backwards land

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Originally Posted by FBD

what was that again about russia pointing out the fact that US satellites were overhead at the time...

http://www.infowars.com/whistleblowe...ing-down-mh17/

Whistleblower: U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E



"Proof of a cover-up is proof of a conspiracy"

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it's a bunch of text with quotes by "the source" :lol:

and they go on to say that the Ukraine troops were possibly undisciplined and drunk, because of beer bottles scattered about.....this from a satellite image????


:rofl: that's a whole lot of conjecture with no actual proof quite similar to - Lindsay Lohan wears no panties on Thursdays...a 'source' close to Lindsay reports :lol:

:lol: oh, if only yall gave the same level of scrutiny to all sides

I'm simply looking at the evidence put before me...I have no opinion either way BEFOREHAND, which makes me an excellent forensic investigator :thumbsup:

we need something from zerohedge i refuse to believe this has even happened till i see something from tyler durden :lol:

as long as a Canadian didn't pull the trigger...I remain neutral

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Originally Posted by Hal-9000

as long as a Canadian didn't pull the trigger...I remain neutral

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So.... you're denying any involvement? You're trying to tell me it's NOT a plot by Canada to weaken the US to the point you could launch a successful invasion?

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Originally Posted by Pony

So.... you're denying any involvement? You're trying to tell me it's NOT a plot by Canada to weaken the US to the point you could launch a successful invasion?

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Hey just because your dodgy satellite imagery shows what appears to be some empty Tim Hortons coffee cups and leftover poutine on paper plates, does NOT mean that Canucks launched that missile.

Besides, where large armaments are concerned we Canadians get anxiety attacks just looking at pictures!! :x :x

..and we would have apologized afterwards [-(