http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=z6kgvhG3AkI
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:lol: The Ken Ham guys biggest argument is "you werent there, you dont know" :lol:
2 hours, 45 minutes, and 33 seconds
You really believe people are going to sit down and watch this?
Maybe, I had it running in the background at work. I had to hear the creationists side. Hoping they had something remotely viable. It's obvious they picked the wrong guy for the argument.
Im 55 minutes in and at his point id like to ask Dr Ham.. " What historical evidence do you offer up to defend your views on creationism"? Now, back to the show...
the bible.... next question
Ok, im at an hour and 29 and i need a break.. Honestly.. I dont think anything bill nye will say will ever change the way a creationist thinks.. Creationists are just taught at a certain level to just blindly accept. Have faith.
I guess I'm the exception then.
I was not force fed any doctrine in my youth and went to church in my teens by choice.
My adult years have been spent without any organized religion influencing my ideology.
So I feel that my belief that all of this is here by design as opposed to a chance joining of random proteins is hardly blind.
So you are a creationist grif?
There is no indisputable proof to either side, both argue speculative proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy
My personal belief is that there was a definite thought process behind the "creation" of our being here.
:shock:
So thats a yes. Thats cool, everyone is entitled to think what they want..Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin
I was not force fed any doctrine in my youthQuote:
Originally Posted by Griffin
Most of my adult years I was an atheist, always trying to disprove the existence of God
I found Christianity/my spirituality at a time I definitely did not want it or welcome it
Similar to Griff...I believe in evolution, yet I don't believe that a random event created every object in the universe including man. Something can not come from nothing in simplified terms of physics, (matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed) so the question remains - Where did the particles that formed our universe originate? Or to dumb it down further - The Big Bang was a true event in history according to science, where did the components come from to start the process? They blinked into existence on their own? Now you're talking about God like things....
http://i.imgur.com/SXB20Q4.png
To further the debate, let's look at the Bible. It's a collection of stories and parables, for argument's sake written over 2000 years ago. It contains first hand observations of a guy who came long during a time of pagan beliefs. Multiple gods for varying circumstances (Roman beliefs primarily).
So this dude starts stretching his mouth about one true God and knows that even speaking against the current belief system is considered dire heresy, and people doing that will likely be rewarded with a free tanning package for a few days, while nailed to a cross. (read - death).
So what was his motivation? Money? Adulation of the masses? He knew that he would gain neither. What was his proof of the existence of one God? At the time, only his words and actions that he committed that were witnessed by others could validate his beliefs.
These others...reporters if you will, risked the same danger even agreeing with these new found beliefs. So what inspired the witnesses to go on record and agree with Jesus and spread the word? We have to imagine that people of the time were similar to us. They didn't welcome death and it must have been easier to agree with the beliefs of the time, rather than eschew that entire belief system and support another new set of beliefs. They could have met at a secret club and kept their opinions to themselves, but they did not.
Did Jesus heal the sick and the lame, did he walk on water, did he turn water into wine? Did he escape entombment after death? We'll never know, but the witnesses (with the risk of grievous bodily harm) seemed to think the man was the real deal. What inspired them to support this man? Was it a tiny cult comprised of small minded people following a charismatic man blindly?
Or was it something based in absolute truth that's lasted almost 3000 years, with the handbook still intact? The rational pragmatic part of me says - If if was a cult of idiots a la Waco or Jonestown, the beliefs certainly would not have lasted thousands of years.
I've mentioned this before. The Bible is composed of multiple accounts relayed by multiple people, and passed down orally first, before being committed to paper. Is a parable a true retelling of an event, or is it symbolic in nature, instructing the reader to live a certain way based on the story told?
5 people can read a chapter of the Bible and come away with 5 different interpretations. Example would be ' eye for an eye '. Most people think the terms means if someone fucks you over, you should return the favor. The actual phrasing is a little different...more the form of a question asking the reader - If someone screws you hard, should you really retaliate or let the universe take care of things.
The Bible is contradictory and imperfect. How dare I say this being a Christian? Because man wrote it. It wasn't magically created by God or Jesus. The word of God is within, but He didn't write the copy and run the printing press, or do any editorial work. I think that's important to remember when arguing about the validity of the text and how it relates to our lives.