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I'm one ep in (yes, I'm slow). Intrigued enough to keep going.
Still trying to work out why the main character, Michael, is a woman. Did he have a sex change? :-k
WARNING: SPOILERS AS OF BELOW
This show is a mess in my opinion. It's taken 12 episodes to clean up some of the wonky writing and ideas.
I can't get into a full critique because it's all spoilers. I read there was a pivotal staffing change after the first two episodes, which may make sense because the direction of the show changes abruptly right around episode three.
I can watch anything Star Trek, yet this show keeps pushing the stupid button and expecting fans to accept it.
ep 9 10 11 and 12 have been some of the best trek produced
hope they manage to continue along that line
Ok, so something like this...
https://i.stack.imgur.com/07XEb.png
I'm up to speed. Good stuff....but.. No Lorca :(
And Klingons make really lame spies. 10 year old could do better!
Do we want to discuss actual plot points here?
My complaints/observations will totally be spoilers for the first season.
I think it's ok to discuss now. Most people would have caught up...I have noticed little things that are off, but my main complaint was the whole Voq thing. 6 months of torture, and then once he knows he's Voq, out he blurts. 'I am Voq'
Contrast that with BSG, which had you on your seat for seasons not knowing who was a 'toaster' :thumbsup:
Big BSG fan here...that was part of the entire plotline, the Cylons could be anybody. It was paranoia at its finest :lol:
Discovery lunacy:
Burnham not only disobeys orders, she's responsible for starting a war with an entire race. (this was based on a hunch (the Vulcan Hello) about something she never did get to try out...) She not only disobeyed the orders of her longtime friend and captain, she assaults the same captain which ultimately results in the captain's death.
She is held responsible for the above crimes, as well as the deaths for over 8000 people, yet she somehow gets a crewman position on another starship.
She not only gets a position, she gets an officer's spot on the bridge. Often challenging and 'convincing' the new captain to change his orders.
The water bear or tartigrade...and mushroom spores...as a starship drive mechanism. Okaaaay.
Not to mention using a valued crewman (Stamets) as part of the drive system, fully well knowing the process is driving him insane and physically killing him.
Everything about the Klingons. They look like nuclear mutants in day-glo outfits. The multiple tribe thing was interesting, but ultimately goes nowhere.
Ash/Voq/who? Rather than just plant the consciousness of a Klingon into a human's body, they took a Klingon and reformed his entire organ system and skeletal structure to look like a human, then they somehow layered the real Ash Tyler on top of that whole mess? Alrighty then...
Commander Saru - A race that senses fear and exercises caution at every instance of trouble, and he made it through Star Fleet to become an officer??? Sure.
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This show had a big shake up after the initial two episodes. The showrunner and writers were changed and it was apparent. The entire direction of episode three and subsequent episodes was different and just guessing, they had to clean up/justify a lot of idiocy the first two eps tried to throw at the audience.
For me, even realizing this is science fiction, if you can't accept the basic premise then everything that follows is crap. Burnham, being a convicted war criminal responsible for over 8000 federation deaths, would NEVER get a chance at serving on a vessel again. Not to mention a 'secret weapon, state of the art' ship like Discovery.
Little things like the word 'disco' on the crew shirts when jogging to the gold lame booties they wear, lessen the intended seriousness. The rave/party/dance scenes on the dining deck. Excuse me?
The opening scene with Burnham and her old captain walking on the planet. There's a storm that's so big the Starship can't use the teleporter. Yet the same starship can see two tiny sets of footprints on the planet surface from orbit. :lol: That's just lazy writing. And it was a huge plot point otherwise the two lead characters would have died.
The entire premise of the show is that one ship got into a showdown with some Klingons. Burnham got advice from Sarek essentially saying - Shoot at the Klingons first to gain their respect. Burnham then disobeys her captain, assaults her captain (and longtime friend), jeopardizes the lives of everyone onboard the ship, and then starts a war with an entire race, resulting in over 8000 federation deaths. And she never did get to try out The Vulkan Hello :lol:
In the previous few sentences, the plot goes against everything the federation stands for, as well as the pure logic tenets Vulcans (and by association Burnham) stand for.
These past few episodes use the now well worn Star Trek trope of the alternate universe, to obviously clean up some of the more puzzling plot progressions the show ran into. If someone tries to tell you the writing team was aware of the recent outcomes back during the beginning of the series, they're lying. Because the writing team changed along with varying, idiotic subject matter.
The production looks gorgeous and they've been trying for a darker tone since day one. It's just too bad the entire premise of the lead actor Michael Burnham doesn't make sense.
:lol:Quote:
They look like nuclear mutants in day-glo outfits.
Agreed. They need some actual scientists to proof these scripts. You know.... the Arts degree types end up as script writers. No f idea sometimes :shakehead:Quote:
The opening scene with Burnham and her old captain walking on the planet. There's a storm that's so big the Starship can't use the teleporter. Yet the same starship can see two tiny sets of footprints on the planet surface from orbit. That's just lazy writing. And it was a huge plot point otherwise the two lead characters would have died.
I agree with most of the other stuff, but to tell you the truth I felt that the last few eps were weakened most by the video-game like visuals and set-pieces. and the 'a bit too evil-ness' of their alt egos. You know, the alt universe ships had red light, ingetc. And the emperors ship looked faake. Wish they'd slow down a bit , like in BSG, saviour the moment between letting loose. When Michael Burnhan put her feet on that alien ship in the first ep I was on the edge of my seat.
I'm not going to go back and read any comments before this post I'm making because I'm only thru the first 7 episodes, but, a few more observations since my last comments about it in the 'last TV show...' thread that Hal and I were talking about:
So, they drop F-bombs on Star Trek now, nice :|
On a military vessel, in Star Fleet, they throw alcoholic fueled parties with bad club music straight from the 20th century where, not only is fraternization amongst crew members allowed, it's encouraged?
Harry Mudd is now a cunning and semi-evil villain compared to what he was (will be) during the time of TOS?
Even though this is supposed to be a prequel to TOS and taking place barely 10 years prior, they ignore almost all canon about anything Star Trek ever.
WTF is up with those t-shirts emblazoned with the word 'DISCO' they are wearing when they are running around the ship? :facepalm:
The transporter, which is known to be a finicky device in the best of times on TOS is routinely used to just get around the ship and move things around the ship, not to mention the fact that there is a transporter control panel seemingly in every single room aboard Discovery.
Two different species of aliens (so far) can live easily onboard the ship as well as out in the vacuum of space?
The amount of aliens in the crew aboard Discover is ridiculous since in just 10 years when TOS takes place, the ONLY alien species in Star Fleet are Vulcans.
And this whole katra thing that supposedly links Burnham and Sarek across any distance of space is fucking stupid.
And speaking of stupid, so is the whole spore drive thing.
I can only comment on a little so as not to spoil things...
Oh how I agree with 120% of your post :lol:
Burnham, for being raised completely by one of the most heralded logical and intelligent Vulcans of all time....sure acts on emotion and makes some piss-poor decisions :lol:
Think the Disco tshirts are bad, wait until you see the booties with gold trim :)
This series is like watching a train wreck, I know I should turn away and stop watching, but I can't. :|
It does improve, but some of the improvements are dodgy. They try to make some of the newer plot points feel like they were part of the story since day one.
To me, it felt like they just got script doctors to come in and say - This part didn't make sense, let's say this happened! Yeah that's the ticket :lol:
A couple of things are clever...and it does take a darker tone towards the end of the season.
Nothing will clear up the timing and the non canonical parts of the series however. Like for example, they could have wiped out 95% of the Klingon tribes and left one, and then have that one mutate into a facsimile we're more familiar with. But noooo...
and we're lucky the 'Remain Klingon' thing didn't gain traction...when I first saw that I thought - this is SJW stuff thinly disguised...
I'm really interested in your take after the finale, episode 15 Lance :thumbsup:
A few more observations after watching another 4 episodes (down to the last four left to watch (12-15) and I will be done):
One I forgot from before: so the computer gives you nutritional information on the food it makes, and it appears that it can make you anything in the galaxy instantly
Good, more swearing, got an 'assholes' drop to go with the earlier f-bombs. Nothing says Star Trek like gratuitous swearing :thumbsup:
So they can, within a short amount of time, transform the Discovery, inside and out, uniforms and all dress and logos, into looking like a ship from a parallel universe with only the info they found on a data storage unit from some space wreckage
The whole 'Tyler is Voq is Tyler' thing is beyond stupid and the more I try and think about it, there's no way the timelines for that whole thing works out. Ever.
The whole USS Defiant thing from the TOS episode 'The Tholian Web' makes no sense, but hey, gotta find someway to get them back to their own universe. And of course they will have no problem decrypting the classified info from a different universe so that they will be able to get themselves home somehow.
The gay relationship, they should force that more because that's what we need more of too. Oops, Tyler/Voq killed the gay doctor, so I guess that won't be going anywhere else.
Mushroom spores cure death :thumbsup:
This whole series is a fucking mess.
:lol:
Could not agree more on each and every point.
The Tyler/Voq thing is such a mess, even the resolution doesn't make sense. (mild but not really a spoiler)
He was Voq, a full fledged Klingon. Then they broke down his bone structure, physiology and removed his organs, and made him look like Ash. Then they hid his consciousness, and layered Ash Tyler's conscious over top of that. Tyler was real guy. So they either had him to use and he's still alive or killed him during the process.
Wouldn't it have been easier to just throw Voq's consciousness into Tyler's body?
Even when some of the ideas seem cool, I keep getting this sense that there have been two sets of writers (and there were), and team B keeps coming in to write team A out of established stupidity.
Hang on to your hat, the last few are going to make you type! :lol:
What baffles me is from a few things I've read online is that the critics love the show. Good God, why? :confused:
Because of some of the things you've listed...gay male romance, food synthesizers that commend snowflakes on their food choices, shirts that say DISCO on them along with gold lame trim on the booties, having a near-rave on the food deck, the whole 'remain Klingon' thing that echoes a few things in our current news, and my personal favorite:
The whole empowerment of a female character after she commits mutiny, physically fights her captain and good friend, is held responsible for over 8000 deaths ...and she still gets to be a bridge officer and often convinces officers in more senior positions to change their minds during conflicts :tup:
And so...at the end of episode 15 we see Discovery running into who? The Enterprise? Commanded by Chris Pike??
There's a term called the Kelvin Universe, where J.J. Abrams created a plot featuring the USS Kelvin commanded by George Kirk, and the ship is eventually destroyed by time traveling Romulans.
So now are there three timelines? The canonical or first timeline, the alternate reality or Kelvin timeline, and now the Discovery or Bullshit timeline? :-k
What bothered me most about the season finale reveal is that Discovery has spent an entire season undoing ideas that are canon.
And then they dare to show the mighty original Enterprise commanded by Pike???
I did love hearing the original outro music for the old series...but come on, talk about blatant theft.
Yeah, the whole thing was a complete and total mess. And not only did they show the Enterprise, they showed the Discovery coming to its aid. :facepalm:
And you know I feel the same way as far as the canon goes because I've mentioned it more than once in my rants as I've progressed through the series.
A few things from the last few episodes:
So, Lorca was from another parallel universe due to a 'transporter malfunction' during an ion storm or some such bullshit. Okay, possibly plausible. But, with an infinite number of parallel universes, he was able to plot the EXACT coordinates to get Discover to jump back to his universe yet the Discovery couldn't get back to the correct time in their universe?
The whole concept of the micelial (or however it's spelled) mushroom network that not only permeates the vacuum of space, but can also go anywhere to any universe is beyond stupid. In fact, that whole spore drive thing might have been the mopst absurd thing in a series filled with absurdities.
Burnham got a chance to try and start another mutiny :cheers:
Burnham, a criminal, got her commision back and became an officer aboard a starship again.? :-s
Star Fleet allows a prisoner from another universe to command a ship and take point on the mission to defeat the Klingons AND agree to her demands to be freed?
The Klingon home world has it's very own Mos Eisly on it? :shakehead:
I know there's more and I'm sure it will come to me :lol:
You notice Burnham has been in the spot to convince superior officers to do something else...at least four times now?
:lol: I agree with all of your end points.
Having a jump drive technology is cool in some respects, but the created background with spores and water bears and almost killing a crew member to run it is just too much. Not to mention the entire idea negates every problem from the past when talking about warp drives...
The mirror universe has been brought up or referenced in almost every version of Star Trek. This one was absurd. Yes, we will let the Emperor of an evil universe have full command of a Starship.
I liked the Orion outpost because some of it brought a real feeling back of humor and humanity? The Klingon guy taking a whiz with two streams immediately made me think of Worf from Next Generation because (minor spoiler) he has a relationship with Troi :lol:
Lorca was the only character I really liked. Then they try to apply another band aid (my perception) and say he was the alternate bad guy from the start. I only hope the real Lorca is still out there and we get to see 'prime' Lorca because I like the actor.
The Orion outpost side thing would have been okay...had it not been on the Klingon home world :lol:
I liked the fact that the production value was as high as it was (probably the only good thing about the series) however I didn't like the fact that they made everything seem far more advanced that what was in TOS. You can make everything look better without making it look like it is more advanced than any of the other Star Trek series ever on television FFS.
In every other series, the Vulcans were level headed and logical. Peace, not war. Sarek in this series was the complete opposite of every Vulcan ever, starting back with the whole Vulcan Hello episode.
I kind of agree with you about Lorca being the most 'likable' character on the show. But I still think he was a bit, over the top, maybe? Not exactly sure what word I'm trying to think of here.
All the gratuitous sex scenes and swearing in the series :thumbsdown:
It's the whole premise from the outset that bothers me.
Sure, get away from canon or create a 'making of' idea in reference to existing canonical ideas. But don't give a ship the power to teleport and set it in 10 years before the original series starts.
One making of idea was brought up by a podcast host - Have the emperor nuke all of the Klingon tribes, leaving only one variety. The difference in looks is no big deal because Klingons have changed on every incarnation since the start. It would also account for their ongoing general hatred of humans.
At first I thought the old school communicators and phasers looked neat. But now they look out of sync with the rest of the surrounding tech. Even the communicators look somehow larger and more fake than the originals :lol:
I thought the same about Sarek...and did they write themselves into a big hole by making her Spock's half sister? Will it be like the recent Supergirl series where they only show Superman in shadow because of copyright issues? :lol:
Speaking of her Vulcan upbringing. Burnham sure makes some emotional moves considering...and her last move was the antithesis of logic. 'Let's save them because it's the humane thing to do!' Right after Starfleet has concocted and okay'd the plan the nuke the Klingon homeworld with extreme prejudice..
Agree 100%....the whole 'spore drive' teleportation thing would have been okay, had there been ANY mention of any of that kind of tech in ANY of the other series. But there wasn't. Nothing even remotely hinted at.
Agree about the communicators and phasers. Why not just go and make them look identical the the ones in TOS? And what is it that they seem to need to 'turn on' the phasers before they can even use them? :facepalm:
And I still don't like the fact that there are something like 7938756293845 different alien species in the crew of the Discovery yet in TOS, the only aliens in Star Fleet were Vulcans.
And all of the alien species are already friends...that scene when Sarek showed up with the Orion and other Superfriends? It just doesn't make sense.
The whole Zefram Cochrane part of history creating warp drive and the first meeting with the first aliens being Vulcans just gets obliterated in this series.
Did you know the character of Zefram Cochrane first appeared in a 1967 episode of the original series? And he was the inventor of warp drive who helped unite the universe?
Boy, talk about a canonical idea holding until one of the movies...30 years later, wisely continues with it :thumbsup:
I love TOS, of course I knew that :slap:
:lol:
It was the TOS episode Metamorphosis, and yes, they held right on to that part of the canon all the way until....Discovery :|
I just don't understand the need for them to obliterate EVERYTHING from the canon. I mean, do they think throwing the names of Capt Pike, the USS Defiant, showing the Enterprise, things like that will make people forgive the way they have trashed every bit of canon that stretched from the original TOS episode all the way through every film up until the "re-imagined" films of the past few years? :|
The Orion and the other Superfriends :lol:
So... skip this?
Oh, I can't believe I forgot to bring this up....the whole cloaking technology that the Klingons supposedly had in this 'prequel'. Cannon says that the first group to have cloaking technology were the Romulans as seen in TOS episode Balance of Terror. Then later on, the Klingons gained cloaking tech from the Romulans.
:facepalm:
For me it was the jump drive tech that really pissed on the old canonical ideas.
Throughout every series, they had warp 1-9, often saying warp 10 is impossible and then edging up to it every now and then.
It gave us viewers the idea that there are limits and at certain speeds the ships become unstable.
Discovery appears and says - Hey, forget about that warp stuff. We can teleport the ship now so speed and dilithium crystals and the warp engines themselves can be ignored :)
*Mr Scott rolls over in his grave with a howl*
Agree with that 100%. We were always told that the starships couldn't withstand the stress of speeds in excess of a certain number as well. In the TOS episode The Changeling with Nomad, I believe he 'modified' the Enterprise's warp drive to hit speeds of greater than warp 10 (it might have gotten as high as 13 or 14 and Mr Scott when informed of it said that was impossible) and Kirk told Nomad that the ship would be torn apart from the stress.
Yet the Discovery can just do it's stupid ballerina twist and vanish and reappear thousands of light years away (or even in a parallel universe) with no adverse effects.
Lance, you'd love this Discovery podcast comment section I frequent. The host pairs up with various people who know Star Trek inside and out. One person likes TOS, one person like Enterprise, etc.
All of them have a good working knowledge of every series and talk about people getting offended over non canonical ideas :lol:
After bitching for about five episodes, they'll settle in and try to just enjoy where Discovery is going and treat it like a new sci-fi show.
I try not to be 'that guy' and bring up every old and accepted idea that Discovery has pissed on. I did however make a list during an argument with some snowflake and got some laughs and likes from the crowd :lol: