the more lesser known things I find out about this guy, the more respect I have for him....no fkn wonder they had him killed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces
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the more lesser known things I find out about this guy, the more respect I have for him....no fkn wonder they had him killed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces
re-watched a lot of this stuff recently - Oswald was completely innocent, and its curious that nobody ever wondered why a cia hit man just so happened to be the one that killed oswald.
This is the best most accurate JFK story ever compiled.
Wasnt exactly pleasant watching the replay of his head spilling open so many times, but having notes the direction of the spillage and all, I'll give you guys one spoiler, the headshot came from the sewer grate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Qt6a-vaNM
Any references to 911 are merely tangential and based on who killed JFK, because...its basically the same group.
3hrs28mins long......... think i'll pass :lol:
that's why I included that spoiler, so one can at least know where the bullet came from.
but other things like....the movie from the passenger side - you dont normally know its edited to cut out the inclusion of showing the car stop - there was a white painted marker on the sidewalk, right where the car stopped, right where the sewer grate was. in the other movie from the driver's side you can see a bit of an indication of the stoppage since you see the police motorcycle slow down behind it and almost hit the limo.
that sewer grate was the last failsafe in the murder scheme.
There's been a lot of theories about where that bullet came from that took off the side of Kennedy's head.
When things get complicated we can simplify.
1. Shots were fired at 12:30pm. Minimum three shots within 5.6 - 8.5 seconds, depending on what report you believe.
2. Oswald was seen by coworkers less that 90 seconds later on the second floor of the book depository. When witnesses saw him he was calm, relaxed and not out of breath.
3. Oswald's face was tested for gunpowder residue and the results were negative. If he used the iron sights or the scope on the rifle, his face would have residue.
There's no dispute that multiple shots were heard and fired. Depending on sources, three to eight shots were heard. 19 roadside witnesses canvased that day reporting hearing shots come from the front of the car or the grassy knoll area. The entire area is a gradual decline with a hill (grassy knoll) on one side, leading to an underground railway bridge that bisects Elm street. The acoustics could be misleading considering the shock and brevity of the event.
There's been a lot written about whether Oswald could make the shots using the Carcano rifle within a certain time span. Two companion parts to this; his ability and the equipment mechanics.
Oswald's military records say he was an above average sniper. People that were in his unit and knew him, said he was a poor shot often getting the equivalent of the booby prize on the firing range. Since we can't know what his actual shooting ability was, we have to assume he could of scored a head shot from his alleged location on the sixth floor.
Groups have since proven that three shots can be fired from the clumsy bolt action Carcano rifle that was found within the allotted time. The scoped sight was way off, needing at least two shims to make it functional, but that could of been a result of someone dropping the rifle to the floor. The iron sights could have been used for the shots.
We have a person with a reported background supporting communism and can place him with a weapon at the alleged location the killing shots came from. The rifle had Oswald's palm print on it and three shell casings were found near the sixth floor window. This is where I start to simplify. My areas of contention:
a. Watch the Zapruder film. The killing shot throws Kennedy's head backwards and towards Jackie. Portions of his head and brain fly back on to the trunk of the limo, and we see Jackie immediately crawl backwards onto the trunk in an effort to retrieve them. The shot was purportedly made from an elevated position behind the car and from the right hand side of road. The destruction to the side of Kennedy's head appears to be a result of a shot coming from the area of the grassy knoll and railway bridge, in front of the car. There was enough brain matter and flesh behind the Kennedys to inspire Jackie to crawl onto the trunk of the car. An elevated shot coming from behind would make an entry wound in the back of the head and the contents would blow out forwards, to where the Connallys were sitting.
b. Protocol. Kennedy's limo became one of the most infamous crime scenes in 20th century history. Instruction was given to clean it and repair it within 48 hours. Kennedy died at 1pm. His autopsy was performed at 8pm that night in Bethesda Maryland, rather than a hospital in Dallas where the death occurred. Reason/excuse made for the delayed autopsy and venue change was that Jackie Kennedy requested it because John was a former Naval officer. This violates normal autopsy procedures to the point where laws were broken. Kennedy's brain was also 'lost' during the ensuing three days. A woman verified as being assigned to take postmortem pictures said that Kennedy's eyes and mouth were not open. According to her his face was in a relaxed state, eyes closed and she did not take the infamous picture where his eyes are open.
c. Jack Ruby. He was seen in the area and within the Dallas police station multiple times at least 24 hours before he shot Oswald. Ruby claimed he loved President Kennedy so much, that he had to shoot Oswald and said it was a spontaneous act out of grief. He later asked to be moved out of his holding cell as he feared for his life and would not say why until he was moved.
There are odd facts and occurrences within the JFK assassination story. Some of it can be attributed to government workers attempting to cope with the death of a President, yet others are bizarre violations of protocol and common sense. I look to Jack Ruby as the smoking gun.
Why would someone shoot a prisoner who was already in custody for killing the President, in full view of Dallas police members? Ruby's life has been examined and he was considered a low level gangster/pimp/nightclub owner depending on the day. There were claims that he was made to kill Oswald as a debt repayment to the mob. He was diagnosed with and died of cancer four years after shooting Oswald. He claimed before his death 'they gave me cancer'. That's a strange claim to make in the early 60's as the origins of cancer were largely unknown and still are today. Ruby was obviously scared of something.
What bothers me most about the JFK discussion is that conspiracy becomes a bad word.
From the Wiki page - "A later investigation, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) agreed with the Warren Commission that the injuries that Kennedy and Connally sustained were caused by Oswald's three rifle shots, but they also concluded that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy".
Lots of rabbit holes to go down when looking at this event. Secret service guy with the AR-15 accidentally shot Kennedy. The 'tramps' who were disguised assassins on the grassy knoll. Bullet ricochets hitting sidewalks and bystanders from the wrong direction. Missing bullet fragments. Missing frames from the Zapruder film. The mysterious Babushka Lady. Groups of witnesses who gave contrary testimony to the released version of events, and later died under mysterious circumstances. Anything associated with Ruby and his actions. Secret Service assignments being changed and reduced the day of the assassination.
Some further oddities. Dan Rather's recorded news piece where he describes the event saying - And then Kennedy's head was thrown violently forward. Recorded phone calls between LBJ and Hoover alluding to a cover up. Autopsy records changing and being redacted without the acting coroner's knowledge.
Anti-Oswald theorists say that Oswald's ideal shot was when the motorcade was traveling towards the book depository along Houston street, rather than as the cars were moving away from him down Elm street. My response to that would be if Oswald took the shot on Houston street as the cars moved towards the book depository, the ensuing police presence may have cut off his planned egress from the building. There's also contention that a large tree obscured his view after the first shot attempt on Elm street, and that would have caused him to re-sight the gun and lose too much time to make the subsequent shot.
Quite possibly the most damning bit of evidence is human nature itself. You're Oswald and have planned this monumental event. You get caught by police and are allowed to make a press statement. Instead of taking credit for the action, he says - "They haven't allowed me to get a lawyer (they didn't) and I'm just a patsy." There's also a mysterious time lag between when Oswald was taken into custody and then charged with shooting the President. He was originally arrested for shooting a police officer.
Think about the dichotomy here. He plans shooting the President from his place of work, where he left the rifle with his fingerprints on it and could be recognized by coworkers. Then he denies the entire act? Those are two different people reacting to the same event. One wants to get caught and the other claims against overwhelming evidence he didn't do it. Oswald may have had different beliefs, but he was never considered of low intelligence or maniacally impulsive.
Of course the Kennedy assassination was the result of a conspiracy. Even if Oswald physically acted alone, he needed to get sensitive information from somewhere.
Again, it's the simplicity of the Zapruder film and Ruby's activities during the following days that point to a more complex conspiracy. To me, it indicates one of the oldest methods used to pull off an illusion. Distraction. Place a guy in a location six floors up with a less than ideal rifle to commit a very important act, and then commit the actual act from a different location. More than one group wanted Kennedy dead for various reasons, that's never been disputed.
The real question is - If you're the group behind the act would you leave it up to one man with a questionable military background using a questionable weapon from a questionable location, where the odds are he would likely get caught escaping, considering he had to hide the rifle and run down six flights of stairs exiting less than 100 meters from the scene of the crime? No, you would ensure the target is killed using multiple, reliable sources as you only get one shot at it...so to speak.
There are so many rabbit holes to go down if you investigate the Kennedy assassination - it will make your head ache.
Not to mention Chappaquiddick - the more-or-less undoing of his brother Ted (there's a Netflix special on it that is interesting and supposedly fact-based). It makes for interesting watching, truth or not.
I suppose we will never know the whole truth regarding anything Kennedy as many of the players are long gone, and they have/had great influence so people were bought and paid for, allegedly, depending on if you believe some theories.
Yeah I just blurted out those JFK posts from memory without trying any real structure. The more you read, the more rabbit holes appear. I wanted to try and simplify to establish kind of a ground zero in case anyone wanted to chat about it. Yes there was a conspiracy, yes the shots could have been made, yes the way the entire event was handled casts suspicion on the event itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noilly Pratt
Jack Ruby was a lynch pin for me. His actions just don't make sense considering the suspect was in custody and likely going to receive life in prison or the death penalty anyways. And the idea that Oswald made those shots and then appeared calm and relaxed on the second floor of the book depository buying a soda less than two minutes later?
My theory is that Oswald was doing a dry run to work out the logistics of a future attempt of a similar nature. He secured the Carcano rifle as more of a working prop for the run-through than an actual killing method because in his mind, no one was going to die that day. The people 'assisting' him had other plans involving real shooters and Oswald becoming the face of the assassination due to his naivety and proximity.
Chappaquiddick - Now that was a blatant mess. How Ted Kennedy went on to any sort of career after that amazes me.