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Thread: Vapers are turning to cigarettes to wean themselves off Juuls

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    #DeSantis2024 Teh One Who Knocks's Avatar
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    Ironic Vapers are turning to cigarettes to wean themselves off Juuls

    By Natasha Frost - Quartz




    E-cigarettes, long touted as a healthier way to move off the original cancer sticks, suddenly face an alarming bad rap: mysterious lung diseases; random explosions during use; a link with cancer and heart disease.

    At the same time, the devices’ so-called strengths have become weaknesses. Users originally drawn to the cheap hit—you get more nicotine for less cash—now find that it’s not always ideal to be able surreptitiously suck on the sticks wherever you choose, whether in subways or school hallways.

    In desperation, as California Healthline reports, users with growing dependence on the devices are now looking to a familiar friend to help them quit: cigarettes.




    No one is under any illusions about cigarettes’ relative danger, of course. But the known unknowns (and the still more threatening unknown unknowns) around e-cigarettes have led some vapers to wonder if they may have been better off with the devil they know.

    For e-cigarette manufacturers, it’s a slap in the face. Juul specifically markets itself as a way to liberate smokers from old-fashioned smokes—with a view to eventually “reduce or eliminate their consumption entirely.” (The company’s pods come in two strengths, with a weaker 3% nicotine concentration designed for those further along their “switching journey.”)

    Big Tobacco is laughing all the way to the bank either way. Traditional cigarette giants have invested heavily in the growing sector, with Marlboro parent company Altria holding a 35% stake in Juul, to the value of nearly $13 billion.

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    transracial Hal-9000's Avatar
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    Big Tobacco is laughing all the way to the bank either way.

    Makes you wonder where the reports about the negative effects of vaping came from...

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    #DeSantis2024 Teh One Who Knocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal-9000 View Post
    Big Tobacco is laughing all the way to the bank either way.

    Makes you wonder where the reports about the negative effects of vaping came from...
    I think it's from the people dying and/or ending up in the hospital with severe lung damage

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    transracial Hal-9000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks View Post
    I think it's from the people dying and/or ending up in the hospital with severe lung damage
    Yes (fuck off) but someone had to expose the medical info and then run with it...and quick.

    People have been dying of cancer for decades and you rarely hear about the sad court cases because Big Tobacco crushes everything and everyone associated.

    It's rare to have something get identified and then blacklisted this quickly..

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    #DeSantis2024 Teh One Who Knocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal-9000 View Post
    Yes (fuck off) but someone had to expose the medical info and then run with it...and quick.

    People have been dying of cancer for decades and you rarely hear about the sad court cases because Big Tobacco crushes everything and everyone associated.

    It's rare to have something get identified and then blacklisted this quickly..
    I think part of it is because with vaping, you get WAY more nicotine than you do with cigarettes. And of course everyone is vaping because it's 'trendy' and 'cool' when it's definitely not cool, you look like a douchebag ffs And all these conditions have happened so quickly, so that's why all the focus on vaping. Plus, like you mentioned, Big Tobacco has a huge lobbying arm and plenty of money to squash every lawsuit. I don't think Juul has that kind of disposable cash and if one of these families of someone that died tries to sue them (Juul), they will end up in bankruptcy.

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    transracial Hal-9000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks View Post
    I think part of it is because with vaping, you get WAY more nicotine than you do with cigarettes. And of course everyone is vaping because it's 'trendy' and 'cool' when it's definitely not cool, you look like a douchebag ffs And all these conditions have happened so quickly, so that's why all the focus on vaping. Plus, like you mentioned, Big Tobacco has a huge lobbying arm and plenty of money to squash every lawsuit. I don't think Juul has that kind of disposable cash and if one of these families of someone that died tries to sue them (Juul), they will end up in bankruptcy.
    Also, they're putting THC concentrates in vaping devices and that's a pretty effective method of intense effect smoking. I've tried distillate (kind of like oil) and some of that shit can be over 80% pure THC.

    Most of the health problems come from the flavors they add to the nicotine or THC liquids from what I understand.

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    #DeSantis2024 Teh One Who Knocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal-9000 View Post
    Also, they're putting THC concentrates in vaping devices and that's a pretty effective method of intense effect smoking. I've tried distillate (kind of like oil) and some of that shit can be over 80% pure THC.

    Most of the health problems come from the flavors they add to the nicotine or THC liquids from what I understand.
    And the flavored stuff was geared towards kids, no matter what they try and claim. My kid said you go into the bathroom anywhere at her high school and there's kids in there vaping, even though you aren't able to buy any of that stuff unless you're 18.

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    transracial Hal-9000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks View Post
    And the flavored stuff was geared towards kids, no matter what they try and claim. My kid said you go into the bathroom anywhere at her high school and there's kids in there vaping, even though you aren't able to buy any of that stuff unless you're 18.
    Yeah my buddy who is a little older than me started vaping to help quit smoking and the stuff he smokes smells like slowly heated caramels.
    It's not overly offensive but it does make me hungry at times

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    21-Jazz hands salute Muddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks View Post
    I don't think Juul has that kind of disposable cash and if one of these families of someone that died tries to sue them (Juul), they will end up in bankruptcy.
    No way.. Altria bought them. They have an endless supply of cash now.

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    Basement Dweller Godfather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hal-9000 View Post
    Big Tobacco is laughing all the way to the bank either way.

    Makes you wonder where the reports about the negative effects of vaping came from...
    I'd bet that's part of it.

    Rant time

    The sick folks are almost certainly smoking black market THC pods, with vitamin E acetate as the root cause. Early on 20% of ~60 hospitalized claimed they strictly vaped nicotine but I don't buy it, and they couldn't connect any one nic product between them. Some kids who originally claimed nicotine-only later admitted to smoking THC, so I'd bet they're lying to hide from parents. There was an article online by a guy in the THC vape industry who said they knew the danger of this acetate used as a thickener/thinner and anywhere regulated and health inspected clearly wouldn't touch it, and feared shady THC makers would before the outbreak occurred. The culprit is probably a company called Dank Vapes/Chronic Carts which makes weed vape pods.

    Part of this scare being ramped up to an extreme seems to me to be confusion and laziness in distinguishing between nicotine e-cigs like Juul, and vaping THC/CBD. They don't have distinct terminology nor is there widespread understanding, so most articles talk about the two interchangeably. But would you talk weed and cigarettes this way if one or the other had a tainted batch ? It's certainly also because it's young people who weren't previously smokers now vaping which was already a growing concern.... but still, my tinfoil hat say just maybe big tobacco was fueling the extreme press on this. Would it really surprise anyone given their history of lobbying, and the vast sums of marketing money (which they can't spend in traditional ways in North America)?


    I'm not ok with teens vaping, it's concerning seeing young people who never had a nicotine habit develop one because it's "cool" and tastes good (and I've tried a friend's vape - they're scary fun, and delicious). But as a cessation device I think there's some serious merit there as the hard evidence seems to show lower doses of heavy metals and being overall less unsafe than smoking - as a means to an end. Public England Health maintains vaping is 95% less damaging than cigarettes. Anecdotally, two buddies of mine did quit smoking using them and have been scaling down their nicotine % slowly towards none.

    We don't ban fruity cigarellos or fruity booze spritzers marketed to teenagers when it gets in their hands. We don't ban beer or cigarettes when there's a bad batch that gives people listeria or wet lung (both of which have happened). So why do e-cigs get this massively evil rapport with calls for bans, rather than just being heavily regulated the same as alcohol and cigarettes to prevent a) underage use and b) tainted product?

    It won't affect me if flavored vape is banned but I do kind of feel bad for adults using it to quit smoking, or even who just chose it as their vice over drinking or smoking cigs (it's less offensive to me at a party than either a drunk guy or a cigarette smoker tbh). Maybe banning flavored juices is the right route to go, but switching from Juuls back to cigs is an insane take that just shows these twitter users bought into the hysteria.
    Last edited by Godfather; 09-17-2019 at 04:07 AM.

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