The NHL wants to punish their bosses?(Bettman is playing with fire)
The NHL wants to punish their bosses?
The Associated Press
TORONTO (AP) -- NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman received three counterproposals from the players' association on Thursday and left the negotiating table ''thoroughly disappointed.''
No new talks have been scheduled, and the possibility of a full hockey regular season is quickly shrinking.
''This is not a good day,'' union executive director Donald Fehr said. ''It should have been.''
The players' association offered multiple options in response to the NHL's offer on Tuesday that called for an 82-game season and a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenues between owners and players.
Bettman said that proposal was the ''best that we could do'' and added that the two sides are still far apart.
''None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach 50-50, either at all or for some long period of time,'' Bettman said.
''It's clear we're not speaking the same language.''
Bettman said he was still hopeful the league can have a full season, but time is running out to make that happen.
''I am concerned based on the proposal that was made today that things are not progressing,'' he said. ''To the contrary, I view the proposal made by the players' association in many ways a step backward.''
Bettman said Tuesday that the sides would have to reach an agreement by Oct. 25 for a full season to be played.
''We came in here today with those proposals thinking that we could really make some progress,'' Pittsburgh Penguins star Sidney Crosby said. ''To hear those words (from Bettman) kind of shuts it down pretty quickly. In a nutshell it doesn't look good.''
Fehr said two of the union's proposals would have the players take a fixed amount of revenue, which would turn into an approximate 50-50 split over the term of the deal, provided league revenues continued to grow.
The third approach would be a 50-50 split, as long as the league honored all existing contracts at full value.
NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly disputed the union's assessment of that offer.
''The so called 50-50 deal, plus honoring current contracts proposed by the NHL Players' Association is being misrepresented,'' Daly said. ''It is not a 50-50 deal. It is most likely a 56- to 57-percent deal in Year One and never gets to 50 percent during the proposed five-year term of the agreement.
''The proposal contemplates paying the players approximately $650 million outside of the players' share. In effect, the union is proposing to change the accounting rules to be able to say '50-50,' when in reality it is not. The union told us that they had not yet 'run the numbers.' We did.''
Fehr said the players would sacrifice nearly $1.8 billion in revenue under the league's proposal. He added that concessions made by the players in the last round of bargaining have cost them $3.3 billion over the term of the last agreement.
The players received 57 percent of revenues in the collective bargaining agreement that expired last month.
NHL players showed up in force Thursday as the union made its various offers.
Among the 18 players at the talks were Crosby, Jarome Iginla, Jonathan Toews and Eric Staal. The scene looked similar to one in August when the union made its first proposal.
The lockout - the third of the Bettman era - began Sept. 16, and the league canceled regular-season games through Oct. 24. Bettman, in announcing the new proposal, called it ''a fair offer for a long-term deal'' and ''one that we hope gets a positive reaction.''
It didn't, and now the clock is an even bigger factor.
There is only one week to strike a deal for the season to start by Nov. 2, three weeks behind schedule. If those deadlines are met, teams would be able to hold makeshift training camps for one week, and then play one extra game every five weeks to make up for the lost time and complete a full slate.
''I don't know what the next step is,'' Bettman said. ''I'm obviously very discouraged.''
In releasing the details, the NHL confirmed the offer was for six years with a mutual option for a seventh. The plan includes a 50-50 split in hockey-related revenue, which is a step forward. The NHL had proposed in July to cut the percentage of HRR from 57 percent to 43, then increased its offer in September to about 47.
Management included a provision to ensure players receive all money promised in existing contracts, but the union is concerned with what management termed the ''make-whole provision.'' If the players' share falls short of their $1.883 billion in 2011-12, the players would be paid up to $149 million of deferred compensation in the first year of a new deal and up to $62 million in the second.
However, the union believes that money would be counted against the players' share in later years.
Crosby is now considering playing in Europe, which is a fairly strong sign the season is probably lost.
So.weak.
If you ask me...the more star players that go elsewhere...the faster the new CBA will get signed.Originally Posted by Godfather
Do you think Mario Lemieux likes the idea of having Crosby/Malkin injured in Europe? Hell no!
BTW even if Crosby goes there...it pretty much means nothing really
They all have "out" clauses in their contracts, once the Lock-out is over, they get back here. (Even if the Lock-out ends the next day that the contract was signed)
By IRA PODELL (AP Sports Writer) | The Associated Press
NEW YORK (AP) -- The little hope that existed for a full NHL season appears to be gone.
Shortly after the players' reached out to the league on Tuesday night to restart stalled labor negotiations, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly rebuffed the union's attempt.
NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman said last week, in presenting the league's most recent offer to the players, that if a new collective bargaining agreement wasn't reached by this Thursday, it would be impossible for a full regular-season schedule to be played.
No talks have been scheduled, and no last-minute discussions seem to be on tap.
''I don't anticipate any taking place for the balance of the week,'' Daly said in an email to The Associated Press on Tuesday night. ''The union has rejected the proposal we made last Tuesday and is not offering another one. We see nothing to be gained at this point by meeting just to meet.''
Following a call for the union's executive board Tuesday night, the players' association informed the NHL it is willing to meet on Wednesday ''or any other date, without preconditions, to try to reach an agreement,'' the players' association said in a statement.
The NHL's response wasn't what the union had hoped to hear.
The sides haven't met since the league turned down three counterproposals from the union on Thursday, two days after the NHL's offer that included a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenue. Because the players' association hasn't shown an inclination to negotiate off of that NHL proposal, a stalemate now exists and could last for a while.
''The league is apparently unwilling to meet,'' NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said in a statement. ''That is unfortunate as it is hard to make progress without talking.''
The developments on Tuesday night came hours after more discourse between the sides on the 38th day of the league's lockout.
While negotiators for the NHL and union kept conversations to a minimum, club officials had a brief window last week to discuss the league's latest proposal.
Those secretive discussions haven't produced any breakthrough, but they have inflamed an already unsettled atmosphere. The union hierarchy wasn't informed about the window then, and isn't happy about it.
''Most owners are not allowed to attend bargaining meetings,'' Fehr said earlier Tuesday. ''No owners are allowed to speak to the media about the bargaining. It is interesting that they are secretly unleashed to talk to the players about the meetings the players can attend, but the owners cannot.''
The NHL said Tuesday that team officials were able to have temporary contact with players, although there were parameters regarding what could be discussed.
''From our perspective, this is a nonissue and a nonstory,'' Daly said Tuesday in an email to The Associated Press. ''There is nothing - legally or otherwise - that precludes club personnel from communicating with their players.''
But, more important, is the fact that NHL officials aren't haven't productive talks with union leaders. Now it seems that a full season, starting on Nov. 2, won't take place.
As of now, the league has called off all games through Nov. 1. Without a deal this week, those games are in danger of being called off for good.
Last week, the NHL's most recent contract offer was presented to the union and then publicly released in full. The union returned to the bargaining table last Thursday with its various counterproposals, that would also get to an even split of hockey revenue, but each was quickly rejected by the league.
There is a major divide between the sides over how to deal with existing player contracts. The union wants to ensure that those are all paid in full without affecting future player contracts.
No negotiations have taken place since last week, but the sides held two conference calls over the weekend to address questions the union had regarding the NHL offer.
After the NHL released it on Wednesday, club officials were given until Friday to speak to players and answer questions they might have about the proposal.
In an internal league memo obtained by The Canadian Press, the NHL stated that those discussions must be limited to the contents of the proposal on the table. It also provided examples of questions that shouldn't be asked of players and noted that straying from the rules could ''cause serious legal problems.''
''You may not ask (a player) what he or others have in mind,'' the memo stated. ''If he volunteers what he has in mind you should not respond positively or negatively or ask any questions but instead refer him to the NHLPA.
''Likewise, you may not suggest hypothetical proposals that the league might make in the future or that the league might entertain from the union.''
This was the first time club officials were permitted by the NHL to talk to players since the lockout took effect Sept. 16.
Thank God for football and baseball.
Warning: The posts of this forum member may contain trigger language which may be considered offensive to some.
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it.
You won't say that in a month or twoThank God for football and baseball.
Strong rumor that the NY Islanders will announce this afternoon that they will be moving to Brooklyn for 2013/14.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
I believe the announcement is done already.
I don't buy it honestly though...14500 seats ain't much far a professional sport league.
Probably the league's way to get a deal for another arena (It would be in 2014-2015 not in 2013-2014, when their lease expires at Nassau Coliseum )
To do what? Play Jai Alai? Sure as hell isn't any hockey happening in the foreseeable future
yep, 20014/15, prolly in time for the next game they will actually play.
The New York Islanders are set to announce that they will be moving to the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York when their lease expires at Nassau Coliseum after the 2014-15 season.
The team has called a news conference for this afternoon at the new arena, which will be home to the NBA's Brooklyn Nets this season.
The news conference will be attended by Islanders owner Charles Wang and general manager Garth Snow, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg among others.
Wang has been lobbying for a new arena for his team for several years. The Nassau Coliseum has been home to the team since it was built in 1972.
Wang has been frustrated in his attempts to find a new location in recent years. Last summer, his proposal to build a new arena and keep the Islanders on Long Island was voted down in a referendum by local residents.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
General Manager Garth Snow? So he sucks at being a manager as well (or even more) as sucking at goaltending.
Warning: The posts of this forum member may contain trigger language which may be considered offensive to some.
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it.
There is nothing done right in the organisation itself to begin with
Dipietro with his 15 years contract...spent most of it on the IR and they are still paying for Yashin for the next 3 years.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
Saw this on a message board discussing the lockout:
Toronto fans are loving it though.
Unbeaten season!
Probably still won't make the playoffs...
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