My guns don't have ammo unless someone loads them. My guns don't aim at people unless someone aims them. My guns doesn't fire unless someone pulls the trigger.Originally Posted by Hal-9000
You guys keep worshiping the altar of the gun, love the gun...for it's never the problem when 20 people die
So how is it that my guns are the problem again?
I think we should give the black people Canada and they can have their own chocolate country..
As long as they stay unarmed
I'll assume you're serious and I'll bite...
I want to hurt someone or a group of people. I live in Canada so it's pretty hard for me to procure a gun on short notice. But since my resolve is strong, I will find a gun and commit my heinous act.
Same example except I live in the States. Guns are easier to get there. If you want to argue that point, don't do it with me....
Now if anyone cares to read and acknowledge what Meurasault posted and I agreed with, it's that guns are the easiest/fastest way for cowards to commit crimes of this nature against multiple targets. You don't have to be big or strong or clever or have training in martial arts... to kill people with a gun.
Now let's take a step back...let's say that we all live in Hal's Utopia and guns are so hard to get, that if a civilian is seen with one, they get the death penalty/no appeal. Only military and law enforcement can have guns.Logic dictates that yes, people will find other methods to kill people. They'll use knives, create bombs and find select whiffle ball bats that will kill people.
Having exposure to guns (ease of procurement) makes the criminal's job that much easier. If he absolutely does not have access to semi automatic firearms one of two things will happen: He'll back down from his plan or he will have to find another method to execute it. I've NEVER said that a criminal WON'T walk into a theater and try and stab 50 people with a knife. In my Utopia, that may become the norm for news stories.....
What I have said is this - Guns are an easy and fast method to kill people. This is not about how diligent you guys are with your licensing/training/actions that you have carried out with your personal firearms.
So AT when you make a post about 'your' guns aiming, loading, discharging themselves without your help.....you're really not addressing my post or thoughts on the subject. You're making a sarcastic comment in the guise of defending your own actions with guns. The moment I read about you, or Kevin, or Lance mowing down multiple people in public, we'll have that conversation
Goofy (07-26-2012)
Yes I am, you said guns are the problem. I clearly showed that my guns (like all guns) cannot harm anyone without being manipulated. So again, explain how guns (inanimate objects) are responsible.I'll assume you're serious and I'll bite...
I want to hurt someone or a group of people. I live in Canada so it's pretty hard for me to procure a gun on short notice. But since my resolve is strong, I will find a gun and commit my heinous act.
Same example except I live in the States. Guns are easier to get there. If you want to argue that point, don't do it with me....
Now if anyone cares to read and acknowledge what Meurasault posted and I agreed with, it's that guns are the easiest/fastest way for cowards to commit crimes of this nature against multiple targets. You don't have to be big or strong or clever or have training in martial arts... to kill people with a gun.
Now let's take a step back...let's say that we all live in Hal's Utopia and guns are so hard to get, that if a civilian is seen with one, they get the death penalty/no appeal. Only military and law enforcement can have guns.Logic dictates that yes, people will find other methods to kill people. They'll use knives, create bombs and find select whiffle ball bats that will kill people.
Having exposure to guns (ease of procurement) makes the criminal's job that much easier. If he absolutely does not have access to semi automatic firearms one of two things will happen: He'll back down from his plan or he will have to find another method to execute it. I've NEVER said that a criminal WON'T walk into a theater and try and stab 50 people with a knife. In my Utopia, that may become the norm for news stories.....
What I have said is this - Guns are an easy and fast method to kill people. This is not about how diligent you guys are with your licensing/training/actions that you have carried out with your personal firearms.
So AT when you make a post about 'your' guns aiming, loading, discharging themselves without your help.....you're really not addressing my post or thoughts on the subject. You're making a sarcastic comment in the guise of defending your own actions with guns. The moment I read about you, or Kevin, or Lance mowing down multiple people in public, we'll have that conversation
Nobody is denying that you can kill people faster with a gun. The entire premise of a weapon is to kill. Who or what gets killed is entirely up to the wielder.
Last edited by Acid Trip; 07-23-2012 at 08:51 PM.
I think my post may have said - guns are never the problem. I'll stand by that because again....this is not about you or even the crazy user. You're diluting the argument to read - It's all about the user, not the weapon. A different discussion once again.
If the semi-auto gun wasn't available, he couldn't have gunned down over 50 people in that period of time. Speed and ease is the contention, not your will to do the right thing when you hold a gun.
Sorry Hal but anyone who blames inanimate objects for the actions of a human being has lost their f'ing mind.
When a car kills a pedestrian do we charge the car with murder? No, so why are you doing that with firearms?
GUNS KILL PEOPLE QUICKER AND EASIER THAN OTHER WEAPONS
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we're not on the same page, peace out brother..I gotta buy a whiffle ball bat
People should be allowed to own nuclear weapons..
its only a matter of time.... hell, this thing is legal to own over there
Shiiiiit!!!
I know right!! I'm so jealous
I wonder if lance will get one for his new "back yard"
Here's my problem with the "Assault Weapons Ban"
Define for me an Assault weapon.
Let's be clear. An AR-15 is NOT a military rifle in the sense that it is fully automatic. It LOOKS like an AR-16 which is fully automatic (or was when I was active duty, now they have that silly 3 round bust pos) I do believe that there is no conceivable reason why a private citizen needs a fully auto weapon. Semi auto on the other hand, yes, those should be available. Take away semi auto weapons, and you are left with pump action, lever action, revolvers or single shot weapons. These are not viable means of defense, as referenced by the 2nd amendment imho.
Being as this guy used firearms ( for lack of evidence otherwise, I will assume he got them legally) you can make a case that he shouldn't have had the ability to do so. But, how do you decide that? He was not a prior criminal, so, he did in fact have the right to purchase firearms. There is already a background check required before you can purchase a firearm from a dealer, plus whatever else my be local to Aurora, what more do you need/want? Do you want firearms taken away totally? Only way this can happen in the US is to change the 2nd amendment, which due to what would be needed, won't happen in our lifetime, and will in my opinion, only result in criminals having firearms. That's gonna work well too.
For those who blame the guns (or ease of access to such) I'd like to see a well thought out reply to how you would legally, and legitimately stop something like this from happening again. Let's not forget Norway (about a year ago iirc) and what happened there with some of the most strict firearms laws in the western world.
I really would like to know your opinion on how to prevent these things from happening.
I know everyone already knows my views are very much like Hal's on this matter. I do understand "guns don't kille people, people kill people" is true. However, it is just made a little bit too easy for even the pettiest crimial to start act tough by getting a huge arsenal of guns. The gun laws enables people to have the attitude that everything can be solved with guns. Soon even the smallest arguments will be solved with guns. It is still the wielders act, yes, but it just is that much easier decision to start doing something when you can so easily get your hands on big guns. So kinda like Hal said... much easier to mow down 50 people in a blink of an eye or shoot down your neighbor in the heat of the moment after having an argument about his dog shitting on your lawn.
Peace out.
The kind of things will never stop happening. There will always be crazy people and bad people. Insane things will always happen. Guns, bombs, car bombs, suicide bombs, kamikaze strikes...what ever it is, a crazy, resolute motherfucker will find a way to do it. There's no question about that.
However, like Hal well put it here "Having exposure to guns (ease of procurement) makes the criminal's job that much easier. If he absolutely does not have access to semi automatic firearms one of two things will happen: He'll back down from his plan or he will have to find another method to execute it. " So when a heartbroken mofo gets an idea to kill his ex gf and her new bf, the ease of getting the gun(s) to do it might just drive him over the edge. If it were not so easy, he might just back down on the idea or atleast give the victims a chance to fight back instead of just gunning them down from distance.
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