Colorado Governor Hickenlooper won’t blame gun laws for theater shooting

[FBD]

There couldn't be much more different views and people than me vs. AT & FBD... and well, pretty much anyone else than HAL and JoeyB. I feel so alone at times trying to bring my views just get walls of text telling me my why opinion is so wrong. It is almost funny at times. So that is the good thing. And that I don't get butthurt too easy.

You know I respect ya, Jez - I just try to be comprehensive by nature. The thing is, given the reality on the ground over here and the history that made everything as it stands basically necessitates us "gun aficionadoes" point of view here. Any other way simply creates a ton of victims when its some asshole crazy with wanton violence, and it is a shame. Now, when someone's hellbent on killing you, specifically...you're going to have a very tough time accounting for every situation - see knife crime in britain. (I dunno about you but I'd rather go by shooting than stabbing...unless the stabber really knew what he was doing ) So its really a neverending set of restrictions as government attempts to "solve" these "problems" - as opposed to society spontaneously self-organizing and acting in a free manner.

Its an individual responsibility thing. Please - 'splain to me your point in general terms, as I have with my point. I mean, to have what I'm seeing your view as, you basically need the entire country to be a freakin singapore police state with vicious punishment meted out by the government on a regular basis just to keep people in line. (An idea which is abhorrent to "any red blooded american.")

(Then again, any attempts to apply that to america...well, we see what progressives attempt to do at every turn, control the populace...clinton, daley, obama, dc, look at places where they restrict people's access and it is always just restricting almost entirely otherwise law abiding people. The control mechanisms are simply incompatible with this country...)

[Lambchop]

There couldn't be much more different views and people than me vs. AT & FBD... and well, pretty much anyone else than HAL and JoeyB. I feel so alone at times trying to bring my views just get walls of text telling me my why opinion is so wrong. It is almost funny at times. So that is the good thing. And that I don't get butthurt too easy.

You're being true to yourself and everyone can respect that. I saw quite a few people change their views just to fit in with the consensus in the past over at AS.

[Hal-9000]

You're being true to yourself and everyone can respect that. I saw quite a few people change their views just to fit in with the consensus in the past over at AS.

And I shot each and every one of those turncoats in the back

[Lambchop]

btw I'm a liberal hippy who agrees with social benefits for the poor/ill. Long live the warm hearted kind folk of the shire!!11!one!

[Hal-9000]

btw I'm a liberal hippy who agrees with social benefits for the poor/ill. Long live the warm hearted kind folk of the shire!!11!one!

:copout:

Tell the kind folks your views on guns and gun control you wuss

[Lambchop]

:copout:

Tell the kind folks your views on guns and gun control you wuss

They should have metal detectors and armed guards at every public venue at a minimum. Increased taxes to pay for all of the required security and equipment, frequent random frisk searches, a ban on any firearm that can kill an entire group of people in mere seconds, a more comprehensive assessment for prospective gun owners. No point saying that all guns should be removed because that will never happen (as much as I would like this). Scrap the NRA, a gun is a weapon and not an idol for worship.

 

imo

[Hal-9000]

They should have metal detectors and armed guards at every public venue at a minimum. Increased taxes to pay for all of the required security and equipment, frequent random frisk searches, a ban on any firearm that can kill an entire group of people in mere seconds, a more comprehensive assessment for prospective gun owners. No point saying that all guns should be removed because that will never happen (as much as I would like this). Scrap the NRA, a gun is a weapon and not an idol for worship.

 

imo

If you were female, I'd be banging you right now. Thanks...I agree with much that you've wrote.

[FBD]

They should have metal detectors and armed guards at every public venue at a minimum. Increased taxes to pay for all of the required security and equipment, frequent random frisk searches, a ban on any firearm that can kill an entire group of people in mere seconds, a more comprehensive assessment for prospective gun owners. No point saying that all guns should be removed because that will never happen (as much as I would like this). Scrap the NRA, a gun is a weapon and not an idol for worship.

 

imo

gahdam...and I thought the police state we already live in is bad, where cops apply law selectively and abuse the power of their position to apply the law as they see fit - so what of the huge amount of abuses that happen under such a system, and the resultant class separation of favored and not? you dont escape it either way, imbalance is the norm, not the exception.

hm, no 4th amendment, government can abuse you at will and to whatever extent...

we already have a ban on automatic weapons...

and people can no longer freely associate? (nra)

no offense to you personally, but PC brainwash has really done a number on ya englishmen. turn a nation of men into pansies in a generation or two, just make sure you send yer youngens to public school...

and its not the 'peacenik' part of it...I may come across a little harsh at times but honestly I'm a rather gentle person, but I have a strong suit for individual responsibility, especially as a counter to over-parenting, over-governing, basically taking away the freedoms that makes being a human a wonderful and desirable thing - but what galls me is the utter lack of any desire to stand up for oneself that's rampant in the politically correct culture. ya dont do jack shit about anything - ya go raise your hand and tell, instead. I see it with the generation growing up in america today, and it is a saddening thing - the government treats citizens like cattle that need to be herded around into doing the proper things, and the educational system is indoctrinating kids into believing this is the proper right way to do things.

sorry if that sounded harsh, but often times speaking plainly...is harsh.

[Muddy]

Pretty good writing there fbd... Helped me understand your views a little better..

[KevinD]

Okay, still not seeing any comprehensive solution to said problem:

How do you prevent someone from killing others with gun(s)

Oh, and BTW, there were NO automatic weapons involved here (or any other recent one that I can remember) Average Joe, cannot at get a automatic weapon legally.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Average Joe, cannot at get a automatic weapon legally.

That's not true, US citizens that are legally allowed to own firearms can also apply to get an NFA firearm (in this case, a fully automatic weapon):

Legal possession of an NFA firearm by an individual requires transfer of registration within the NFA registry. An individual owner does not need to be an NFA dealer to buy Title II firearms. The sale and purchase of NFA firearms is, however, taxed and regulated, as follows:

All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, obtain a signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) who is the county sheriff or city or town chief of police (not necessarily permission), pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax. The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[14] Many times law enforcement officers will not sign the NFA documents. There have been several unfavorable lawsuits where plaintiffs have been denied NFA approval for a transfer. These lawsuit include; Lomont v. O'Neill 2002 9th circuit, Westfall v. Miller 1996 5th circuit, and Steele v. National Firearms Branch 1985 11th circuit. In response Tennessee and Alaska have passed state laws which require the CLEO to execute the NFA documents. On October 28, 2010 in response to a writ of mandamus a Tennessee Williamson County Chancellor Robbie Beal found that the sheriff or CLEO is not required to execute NFA documents according to Tenn. Code Ann. 39-17-1361

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

[KevinD]

I understand that, and perhaps should have worded it better: Automatic weapons are harder to get legally. Average Joe doesn't have one due to the process to legally obtain an automatic weapon.

[Lambchop]

gahdam...and I thought the police state we already live in is bad, where cops apply law selectively and abuse the power of their position to apply the law as they see fit - so what of the huge amount of abuses that happen under such a system, and the resultant class separation of favored and not? you dont escape it either way, imbalance is the norm, not the exception.

hm, no 4th amendment, government can abuse you at will and to whatever extent...

we already have a ban on automatic weapons...

and people can no longer freely associate? (nra)

no offense to you personally, but PC brainwash has really done a number on ya englishmen. turn a nation of men into pansies in a generation or two, just make sure you send yer youngens to public school...

and its not the 'peacenik' part of it...I may come across a little harsh at times but honestly I'm a rather gentle person, but I have a strong suit for individual responsibility, especially as a counter to over-parenting, over-governing, basically taking away the freedoms that makes being a human a wonderful and desirable thing - but what galls me is the utter lack of any desire to stand up for oneself that's rampant in the politically correct culture. ya dont do jack shit about anything - ya go raise your hand and tell, instead. I see it with the generation growing up in america today, and it is a saddening thing - the government treats citizens like cattle that need to be herded around into doing the proper things, and the educational system is indoctrinating kids into believing this is the proper right way to do things.

sorry if that sounded harsh, but often times speaking plainly...is harsh.

How do you know that you haven't been indoctrinated and that your train of thought isn't merely the recycled ideologies of others who wanted you to think in the exact manner that you do?

Not sure about the nation of pansies but personally I wasn't over-parented, I was educated privately (~£19,000 per year - thanks daddy), the majority of my health care has been private with the exception of a few blood tests and an MRI scan. I was surrounded by conservative people growing up due to the nature of my father's work but I try to form my own opinions and if anything, I give more than I take as far as society is concerned.

I could never take anything you say harsh at all. I just find it amusing that you think that anyone who opposes your views must have been indoctrinated, is lazy and wants everything for free. That, to me, is a true sign of someone who has been brainwashed.

[Jezter]

You know I respect ya, Jez - I just try to be comprehensive by nature. The thing is, given the reality on the ground over here and the history that made everything as it stands basically necessitates us "gun aficionadoes" point of view here. Any other way simply creates a ton of victims when its some asshole crazy with wanton violence, and it is a shame. Now, when someone's hellbent on killing you, specifically...you're going to have a very tough time accounting for every situation - see knife crime in britain. (I dunno about you but I'd rather go by shooting than stabbing...unless the stabber really knew what he was doing ) So its really a neverending set of restrictions as government attempts to "solve" these "problems" - as opposed to society spontaneously self-organizing and acting in a free manner.

Its an individual responsibility thing. Please - 'splain to me your point in general terms, as I have with my point. I mean, to have what I'm seeing your view as, you basically need the entire country to be a freakin singapore police state with vicious punishment meted out by the government on a regular basis just to keep people in line. (An idea which is abhorrent to "any red blooded american.")

(Then again, any attempts to apply that to america...well, we see what progressives attempt to do at every turn, control the populace...clinton, daley, obama, dc, look at places where they restrict people's access and it is always just restricting almost entirely otherwise law abiding people. The control mechanisms are simply incompatible with this country...)

I agree that the control mechanisms are incompatible with your country as is many other things that work well here in Scandinavia for example. That is one of the reasons why it is sometimes hard to understand why you all do things like you do... It takes generations and generations of people thinking differently and wanting to change things.

Maybe towards the anarchist, no government, everyone fight for oneself type of Mad Max scenario that I often picture you wanting when I see your posts. I am sorry, but that is what I really picture in my head. Everyone is an individual, no proper society rules and everyone left to cope on their own without outside help, no one trusting one another, everyone armed and ready to shoot for a barrel of precious oil. Maybe a bit harsh that, but really, somehow I get a bit of anarchist vibe out of you...for what ever reason that may be.

I don't know what you mean by wanting me to explain to you my views in any more simple terms. I've kept my posts short and simple this far... Basically what I like is the kind of gun laws that we have here. I like the conversation that has been going on about changing them further, maybe even a little bit more strict than they are now. Im fine with that. To me, the only persons that need guns are the law enforcement, hunters and those who legitimately do competitive shooting and/or hunt. I don't care for people owning guns just for the sake of owning guns. To me, the ones who use guns need to be well trained with using the gun(s), actively and in controlled environment keep up their skills of using it. And while the gun(s) is/are not in use, they remain locked in a gunsafe. Don't know how more simplistic you can get... Oh and yea, I left out the army, cuz in my perfect world, the entire world wouldn't need armies cuz there wouldn't be wars...but we all know that aint gonna happen, so yea..army needs guns too. Unfortunately.

You're being true to yourself and everyone can respect that. I saw quite a few people change their views just to fit in with the consensus in the past over at AS.

Thank you.

(...)
a strong suit for individual responsibility, especially as a counter to over-parenting, over-governing, basically taking away the freedoms that makes being a human a wonderful and desirable thing - but what galls me is the utter lack of any desire to stand up for oneself that's rampant in the politically correct culture. ya dont do jack shit about anything - ya go raise your hand and tell, instead. I see it with the generation growing up in america today, and it is a saddening thing - the government treats citizens like cattle that need to be herded around into doing the proper things, and the educational system is indoctrinating kids into believing this is the proper right way to do things.

Im lucky the Nordic model, and especially Finnnish version of it, is very much pro individual responsibility and freedom. So I do agree with the stuff you said above. Finally something we agree on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

How do you prevent someone from killing others with gun(s)

There is no way that is going to happen in this world anymore. We are WAY WAY beyond that point. That will always happen for as long as firearms exist. I have said that many times in my posts that I realize and understand that.

How do you know that you haven't been indoctrinated and that your train of thought isn't merely the recycled ideologies of others who wanted you to think in the exact manner that you do?

Not sure about the nation of pansies but personally I wasn't over-parented, I was educated privately (~£19,000 per year - thanks daddy), the majority of my health care has been private with the exception of a few blood tests and an MRI scan. I was surrounded by conservative people growing up due to the nature of my father's work but I try to form my own opinions and if anything, I give more than I take as far as society is concerned.

I could never take anything you say harsh at all. I just find it amusing that you think that anyone who opposes your views must have been indoctrinated, is lazy and wants everything for free. That, to me, is a true sign of someone who has been brainwashed.

Good stuff, Lamby.

[Muddy]

You guys better hope the Ruskies don't try to annex you all again..