Ok, I poured over everything I could find, neglecting opinion pieces and the like, and here's my official take: Just like I thought before, there's no way to justify the actions of these 2 guys. They murdered that kid.
Ok, I poured over everything I could find, neglecting opinion pieces and the like, and here's my official take: Just like I thought before, there's no way to justify the actions of these 2 guys. They murdered that kid.
Warning: The posts of this forum member may contain trigger language which may be considered offensive to some.
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it.
lost in melb. (05-08-2020), RBP (05-08-2020)
Originally Posted by RBP
Sure seems that way doesn't it. Even if he threw the first punch, if I'm out for a jog and two dudes with guns try and stop me for no reason, it's fight or flight time, so I get why he fought. Really sad.
Someone posted this and I thought it summed things up legally (from one side):
So, murder or manslaughter ultimately you figure?I’m adding the analysis of Georgia law by a Georgia Lawyer friend of mine who handles a lot of these types of cases.
Feel free to share this to help show how the law was designed to work in cases of shooting unarmed people.
A black man (Arbery) was shot in broad daylight while jogging in his own neighborhood. The 911 calls have the operator asking the shooter what Arbery was doing that was of criminal concern. They didn't give any answer for that, they said, 'He's a black man running down our road.” The DA later determined that the men were conducting an armed citizens arrest of a black man who fit the description of a man that committed robberies at some unspecified time and place in the past.
No charges filed.
The murder of Ahmaud Arbery raises questions of self defense and mutual combat in Georgia and whether the DA properly exercised discretion in not charging the men making a “citizens arrest.” Fortunately, the Supreme Court of Georgia has already resolved this for us and the men should be charged with murder. Here’s why:
To lawfully use deadly force, an individual must reasonably believe “that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.” O.C.G.A. § 16-3-21(a). If a party knowingly uses deadly force on an unarmed individual, they are not entitled to a justification defense:
“Yet, the record shows that Milton moved toward Brunson only because Brunson had threatened Milton with a revolver. Both eyewitnesses testified that Milton grabbed the arm of the hand holding the gun and pointed it away from anyone. No witness testified that Milton had a gun, and police found no other weapon, shell casings, or bullet holes at the crime scene. The fact that Milton was a large man is insufficient to support a finding that Brunson had a reasonable belief that he had to shoot Milton to avoid death or great bodily injury to himself. Therefore, we conclude that the trial court did not err in determining that the evidence did not warrant the giving of a self-defense charge.” Brunson v. State, 293 Ga. 226, 227–28, 744 S.E.2d 695, 697 (2013).
As stated by the Georgia Supreme Court and the Georgia Court of Appeals, “[m]utual combat usually arises when both parties are armed with deadly weapons and mutually agree or intend to fight with them.” Martin v. State, 258 Ga. 300, 301, 368 S.E.2d 515, 516 (1988). It has been repeatedly held that the defense of mutual combat does not apply to a fist fight, or a scuffle:
Mutual combat does not mean a mere fist fight or scuffle. “There was no evidence that they mutually agreed or intended to fight with deadly weapons. The requested charge [of mutual combat] was not warranted by the evidence and the trial court did not err in refusing to give it.” Martin, 258 Ga. at 301; see also Stewart v. State, 257 Ga. 211, 213, 356 S.E.2d 515, 516–17 (1987); Stewart v. State, 257 Ga. 211, 213, 356 S.E.2d 515, 516–17 (1987) (“The evidence in this case did not warrant a charge on mutual combat, as there was no evidence that the victim was armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the fight….”); Andrews v. State, 254 Ga. 498, 499, 330 S.E.2d 873, 875 (1985) (“There is no evidence that the victim in this case was armed with a deadly weapon nor that the victim agreed to fight.“)
Last edited by Godfather; 05-08-2020 at 03:18 AM.
lost in melb. (05-08-2020), RBP (05-08-2020)
I'm thinking murder, possibly 2nd degree. A good argument could be made for 1st degree, but I'm not entirely sure.
I didn't see anything regarding the 911 call that was placed before they hunted him down, I just know McMichael placed one and that it was short. "A black guy running down my street"... the media will have a field day with that. I can see Black Lives Matters coming down here.
A case could be made for manslaughter for the son if it could be proven that the shotgun went off inadvertently during the physical altercation. But still, they shouldn't have been there to begin with. They were looking for a fight, they hunted him down, the father called the son to back him up before they went looking for Arbery. That's intent and could be premeditation, so I'm thinking it has to be murder.
Just what we needed: the pandemic, government trying to take away our rights in the name of the pandemic, Asian giant murder wasps on the West Coast, and now this. 2020 is sucking really hard.
Warning: The posts of this forum member may contain trigger language which may be considered offensive to some.
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it.
Sorry late reply. I guess they're not really reading glasses, one step up. It's a light prescription, something like +0.75 with some OD/OS/Axis numbers the prescription showed that I just punched into Eyebuydirect!You need a prescription for reading glasses?
Sounds like the media is going to have a field day no matter what happens eh. They perceive the process up until the point as being too slow and indicative of racism from my cursory browse through this stuff.
Grain of salt, but this is the timeline they're citing which is riling up folks online:
Seems oversimplified.. but it's also at least tempting to ask why it took over 2 months to ask GBI to investigate (though the recusal decision surely took time)Feb 23: Ahmaud is killed
April 29: City/PD asks GBI to investigate threats against staff
May 5th: City/PD asks GBI to investigate who leaked the video. And also asks they investigate the case.
May 6th: GBI begins murder investigation
May 7th: makes two arrests
Last edited by Godfather; 05-08-2020 at 06:58 AM.
I only watched the video once but that was pretty much my take. The tried to stop him by yelling and threatening with the shotgun (I swore I heard him cock the gun), he attacked out of self defense and they fired.
Bottom line is you can't go chasing someone down the street and instigate a confrontation, it could and did go bad. Even if it was the guy that committed burglary you shouldn't go chasing them down, armed, looking for a confrontation. You should at most follow them at a distance until cops arrive.
They were the aggressors, self defense won't fly. They didn't witness a crime immediately before the incident, citizens arrest won't fly.
DemonGeminiX (05-08-2020), lost in melb. (05-08-2020), RBP (05-08-2020)
If I was the DA, I would charge them with 1st Degree Murder.
Interesting discussion. Thanks, guys.
I wanted to be a Monk, but I never got the chants.
Godfather (05-09-2020)
That's not rocket science, Greg McMichael retired from the GCPD last year. He has friends in high places. You can call it the "Good Ol' Boy" system if you want, but what it boils down to is it's the same all over: Police take care of their own. Burnhill laid it out in his letter.
What's killing me is they totally could have gotten away with it if they stopped dropping huge pieces of breadcrumbs all over the place: the guy that took the video was a friend of Travis McMichael. He was with them. If the video doesn't exist, they could've doctored their story every which way and how. Burnhill was all set to let it go because one of his family members worked with McMichael in the GCPD before McMichael retired. He wasn't gonna recuse himself until the public outcry, he said so AND THEN stated the reason he was letting the crime go as the reason why he was recusing himself. These people are utter morons.
If Burnhill doesn't get canned... man...
Warning: The posts of this forum member may contain trigger language which may be considered offensive to some.
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it.
Godfather (05-09-2020)
This hasn't touched the news here. Is it recent?
The actual incident took place in February this year, but the story is just making national news here in the last few days.
lost in melb. (05-08-2020)
Newest unemployment numbers are out, it's jumped to 14.7% in the US with employers cutting 20.5 million jobs in April.
RBP (05-08-2020)
Grossly understated
I wanted to be a Monk, but I never got the chants.
I wanted to let everyone know that I am doing my part to save the planet.
Yesterday, I was taking a shit and had to sneeze. I sneezed into the toilet paper, blew my nose in it, and wiped my ass. With no extra paper used!!!
I am basically the Greta of shitting. Praise me.
I wanted to be a Monk, but I never got the chants.
KevinD (05-08-2020)
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