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Thread: Israel etc.

  1. #31
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    No the first line was meant to be a wtf moment, as no main stream media brought to attention that over 100,000 civilians died during those wars.

    Wars that didn't need to happen, against countries that didn't attack us.

    Sure people were against the wars, but no media attention as to how many civilians died.


    Israel is defending itself. Flat out. But for some reason people are throwing a fucking hissy because they are doing so.

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    I was pretty sure that was your intent, I know you a lil better than that I think So I tried to frame it as such.

    I just think to *only* consider this in the context of "israelis have their land, and rockets are getting fired into it" is a bit....narrow...but I'm coing from a perspective that I cant support the vast majority of anything the US or the Israeli government does.

    will most likely be writing NO CONSENT on my ballots

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fodster View Post
    Timelapse Video Shows Complete Flattening Of Gaza Neighbourhood



    ''We are not targeting a single civilian''

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    Another UN shelter housing kids shelled by Israel, after being warned by the UN 17 times about the site!

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-school-israel

  5. #35
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    Here's one for the winning team.

    THIRD Rocket Arsenal Found At UN School In Gaza


    UNRWA has yet to place blame on any individuals or organizations for placing the weapons stockpile within a children’s school. The UN body refused to do so on the past two previous occasions as well.
    The UN body, after both previous findings, has handed the rockets it had found back into the possession of “the local police," otherwise known as the terrorist group Hamas.
    This week, UNRWA supplies and building materials had been found in Hamas’s tunnel infrastructure, which has been used to smuggle weapons and carry out attacks on the State of Israel.


    The UN agency has a well-documented history of using their US taxpayer-funded facilities to promote anti-Israel and anti-Semitic propaganda. It has in the past been accused of aiding and abetting radical Islamists in Gaza and elsewhere.
    UNRWA was created in 1949 to provide relief and public works programs for displaced Arab refugees that had formerly inhabited the British mandate of Palestine. UNRWA is currently the largest agency-subdivision of the entire UN, employing over 30,000 staff. UNRWA has objectively failed in its primary goal of finding homes for those it has deemed “refugees”. From 1949 to present day, refugees recognized by UNRWA has grown from 750,000 to 5,000,000 people.

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    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/...-blowback.html

    United Press International reported in 2002:

    According to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.Israel “aided Hamas directly — the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),” said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

    Israel’s support for Hamas “was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative,” said a former senior CIA official.

    According to documents United Press International obtained from the Israel-based Institute for Counter Terrorism, Hamas evolved from cells of the Muslim Brotherhood, founded in Egypt in 1928. Islamic movements in Israel and Palestine were “weak and dormant” until after the 1967 Six Day War in which Israel scored a stunning victory over its Arab enemies.

    After 1967, a great part of the success of the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood was due to their activities among the refugees of the Gaza Strip. The cornerstone of the Islamic movements success was an impressive social, religious, educational and cultural infrastructure, called Da’wah, that worked to ease the hardship of large numbers of Palestinian refugees, confined to camps, and many who were living on the edge.

    “Social influence grew into political influence,” first in the Gaza Strip, then on the West Bank, said an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

    According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement’s spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.

    According to U.S. administration officials, funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted to set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini’s Iran.

    ***

    Israel was certainly funding the group at that time. One U.S. intelligence source who asked not to be named said that not only was Hamas being funded as a “counterweight” to the PLO, Israeli aid had another purpose: “To help identify and channel towards Israeli agents Hamas members who were dangerous terrorists.”

    In addition, by infiltrating Hamas, Israeli informers could only listen to debates on policy and identify Hamas members who “were dangerous hard-liners,” the official said.

    In the end, as Hamas set up a very comprehensive counterintelligence system, many collaborators with Israel were weeded out and shot. Violent acts of terrorism became the central tenet, and Hamas, unlike the PLO, was unwilling to compromise in any way with Israel, refusing to acquiesce in its very existence.

    But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: “The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place,” said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.

    “Israel would still be the only democracy in the region for the United States to deal with,” he said.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    http://www.sott.net/article/282780-A...-other-regimes

    And during this time I am discovering something amazing. The more I go in looking for occupation, the more I find money. And I don't understand, so I am going deeper and deeper and then in 2010 I am getting into a very interesting story about how the Israeli government and Israeli army was selling a new tear gas canister to the police and government of Singapore people. They are buying tear canisters to fight their own protests in their country. And during this time I am looking and I am saying, "Israel is selling tear gas canisters?!"

    So I am going into the website of this minister of security in Israel and I am finding out that they are saying that, "Israel just concluded a deal with the Singapore government of selling the best tear gas canister ever produced and tried by the Israeli army". And it mentioned there a few lines later that this tear gas canister was proven to be "the deadliest ever".

    And I am going back and I am saying, "Wait... Tried the tear gas canister? Who would agree to try...?"

    And then I understand. They are trying their weapons every day. Not in labs, down there in the field. I was trying their weapons in Biilin, in Ni'lin, in Hebron, in East Jerusalem [and other Palestinian communities], we are trying the weapons every day, and then we are selling them outside. And I can't believe the things that I am seeing, so I am going deeper and deeper and then I realized... You remember these guys, the young guys who threw stones at the beginning of the protests? They were not Palestinians. They were actually an undercover unit of the Israeli army, looking like me, Arab-Jews, disguised as Palestinians inside these villages starting a riot, starting something, so that the Israeli army will have a good excuse to start shooting the place up and testing the weapons!

    And the more I go deeper the more I can't understand. Is this for real? How long is this going for? How much money are we making? I am going in and in and then I discovered. In the last 30-40 years - and this is a very, very partial list - this is the list of the dictatorships and regimes that the Israeli government, the Israeli army, is trading weapons with: trading knowledge with, trading technology or training their soldiers by themselves in those countries. The last 40 years we were involved in the worst dictatorships and regimes in the world. And we are making a killing out of it. Literally. We are making so much money out of it.

    And then I understand. This is not an occupation. It's a laboratory. Sometimes as a soldier I would infuse poison to Palestinians. Sometimes as a protestor I would run away with Palestinians and be a lab rat. But all this time, we are trying weapons out and selling them out there. It's the source of everything. It's not the religion, it's not the land, there's a lot, a lot of money, and I understand that I am standing in the wrong place. And I am moving to New York City, from Jerusalem, it's a big change. And for the last 3 years in NYC I am researching the relationship between our army and your [U.S.] army. Our government and your government and all the money that flows in the middle.



    He goes on to say how an interaction with a Maryland police officer gives him more perspective. When Eran says he is from Israel, the police officer replies:

    "Oh men, you guys are bad asses, you know how to silence the one that opposes you, you know how to come down, nobody disobeys you, you guys are the best!"

    And I am saying, "I don't think you know a lot about the Israeli army, so, you know, never mind..."

    He says, "Oh no no, I just came back from there."

    I say, "What? As a tourist?"

    He says, "No, with the Maryland police, we just came back from training with your military and your police.

    I say, "What?"

    He says, "You know all of our police force here in the U.S. is going few weeks to Israel and train with your army and your police."

    Then before I leave his [police officer] car I am asking, "Is there a chance you know Mr Efrati? My father, the head of the investigation of Jerusalem police?"

    And the guy takes out his cell phone and flips his pictures, and he got a picture with my dad, in the middle of the night, in Washington DC. and I am just blown away, I am going out of the car and I am calling my dad in Jerusalem and I am saying "Dad, what the hell?!" And my dad is telling me, "Oh come on Eran, don't be naive! You know when NYPD got an office in Tel Aviv, right? You know we got an office in NYC, right? Come on, we are working together to protect you."

    And then I understand. It wasn't the first time, but that was my closure.

    For years we are doing these kind of lectures, very different kinds of lectures and talking with communities here in the U.S. telling them that all they need to do is take care of their community and it's going to be fine. Every one of us will take care of our community, but you should know that what's going on in Palestine is a humanitarian crisis. And I am going around and I am telling them, I learned something growing up. All of us want to be on the right place at the right time when history is knocking on the door. And history is knocking right now. Really loud in Palestine, and all of you need to be on the right side in this humanitarian case. But if you don't care about Palestinians after these lectures, I don't care. And if you don't care about us Israelis asking for your help to stop the apartheid regime in Israel, I am fine with that also.

    But you guys should know: you are next in line. The next one who will die from a tear gas canister, it will be in Denver, it will be in Oakland, in San Francisco... It is happening here already. It's happening to different people, to people of color, to immigrants, it's already happening, you guys are next in line. The next one who will die out of police brutality will be one of your sons, or your daughters, in a protest. Because they are training together: your police training with our army. Our army is training them on how to take care of the "enemy". Because Palestinians are our "enemy". But when they come back, you are their enemy. All this time, when we are taking care of our community - I was taking care of mine, and you were trying to take care of yours - they (the government, the police) are organizing together, globally, to oppress us. We need to start organizing globally to resist them. And that starts in Palestine, right now. Stopping the training there, we'll stop it here. That's why I joined in 2005 the Civil Society Call for the Palestinians for Boycott Divestment and Sanction on the state of Israel, taking it out from the source. Non-violently. Taking the money out of the equation.
    Israel started Hamas. It was a project of Shin Bet, which had a feeling that they could use it to hem in the PLO.



    “In addition to hoping to turn the Palestinian masses away from Arafat and the PLO, the Likud leadership believed they could achieve a workable alliance with Islamic, anti-Arafat forces that would also extend Israel’s control over the occupied territories.”

    In a conscious effort to undermine the Palestine Liberation Organization and the leadership of Yasser Arafat, in 1978 the government of then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin approved the application of Sheik Ahmad Yassin to start a “humanitarian” organization known as the Islamic Association, or Mujama. The roots of this Islamist group were in the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, and this was the seed that eventually grew into Hamas – but not before it was amply fertilized and nurtured with Israeli funding and political support.

    Begin and his successor, Yitzhak Shamir, launched an effort to undercut the PLO, creating the so-called Village Leagues, composed of local councils of handpicked Palestinians who were willing to collaborate with Israel – and, in return, were put on the Israeli payroll. Sheik Yassin and his followers soon became a force within the Village Leagues. This tactical alliance between Yassin and the Israelis was based on a shared antipathy to the militantly secular and leftist PLO: the Israelis allowed Yassin’s group to publish a newspaper and set up an extensive network of charitable organizations, which collected funds not only from the Israelis but also from Arab states opposed to Arafat.

    Ami Isseroff, writing on MideastWeb, shows how the Israelis deliberately promoted the Islamists of the future Hamas by helping them turn the Islamic University of Gaza into a base from which the group recruited activists – and the suicide bombers of tomorrow. As the only higher-education facility in the Gaza strip, and the only such institution open to Palestinians since Anwar Sadat closed Egyptian colleges to them, IUG contained within its grounds the seeds of the future Palestinian state. When a conflict arose over religious issues, however, the Israeli authorities sided with the Islamists against the secularists of the Fatah-PLO mainstream.


    Last edited by FBD; 08-01-2014 at 02:05 PM.

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    changes perspective a bit when you have some history, dunnit?

  9. #38
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    I'm going to watch that IDF soldier's video tonight.

    BTW there's a new video showing Israel bombing Palestinian civilians, paramedics and journalists.

    Google The Moment a rapid of Israeli Airstrike Hit Civilians, Journalists & Ambulance *HD* *6mins footage*

    (It's the LiveLeak link)

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    FBD, that's all bullshit.

    Hamas started as a breakaway faction of the muslim brotherhood in egypt in the mid 80's.


    As for your picture of the sniper...It's proven to be a fake.

    Keep trying.

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  11. #40
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    Hamas and Israel agreed to a 72-hour cease-fire. The cease-fire starts and then Hamas abducts an Israeli soldier. Cease-fire over. Israel needs to wipe these fuckers off the map.


    Warning: The posts of this forum member may contain trigger language which may be considered offensive to some.

    Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loser View Post
    FBD, that's all bullshit.

    Hamas started as a breakaway faction of the muslim brotherhood in egypt in the mid 80's.


    Keep trying.
    trying? lol. go ahead and ignore the cultivation of these things by israel if you want, that's your choice, I'm not trying to sway your judgement. this isnt like 9-11 where you have absolutely painfully clear smoking guns, incontrovertible evidence of the government purposefully doing the whole shit.

    regardless of the authenticity of that sniper picture - what of this israeli soldier's story? most people that dont want to consider that israel isnt always right wont even watch it. (kinda like those who are well indoctrinated enough on 9-11 that they refuse to see the sun in the sky staring at them)

  14. #42
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    I'm not saying Israel is always correct with some of the shit they do, and they have done some stupid shit in the past. Name one country that hasn't done dumb shit other then best korea...

    But in this case, right here and now, they are doing nothing more then defending themselves.

    I would have no problem, what so ever, with israel occupying gaza until they completely destroy hamas. As is their right to do so.

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  15. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBD View Post
    trying? lol. go ahead and ignore the cultivation of these things by israel if you want, that's your choice, I'm not trying to sway your judgement. this isnt like 9-11 where you have absolutely painfully clear smoking guns, incontrovertible evidence of the government purposefully doing the whole shit.

    regardless of the authenticity of that sniper picture - what of this israeli soldier's story? most people that dont want to consider that israel isnt always right wont even watch it. (kinda like those who are well indoctrinated enough on 9-11 that they refuse to see the sun in the sky staring at them)
    One non-mod's rant in response...

    You know, it's one thing to believe the conspiracies on 9/11. However, "painfully clear, incontrovertible evidence" that only those who are "so indoctrinated that they refuse to see [your truth]" is fucking insulting. I think we do a pretty decent job of respecting opinions here without going overboard to say other members are morons. You are pretty clear in that post that you consider anyone who doesn't believe your version of events (what an overwhelming majority of the world considers a paranoid fantasy) to be a brainless dolt incapable of independent rational thought. I choose not to indulge your interesting viewpoints, but I respect your right to have them. It's about time you gave the same consideration to the rest of the members here.
    I wanted to be a Monk, but I never got the chants.

  16. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to RBP For This Useful Post:

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  17. #44
    transracial Hal-9000's Avatar
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    When you get down to the short hairs, the majority of posts are opinions. Your opinion is formed based on a simple combination of the stimuli you've encountered on the subject... and your internal belief system that's comprised of your education and direct life experiences. Two people could read the same 10000 combined words relating to a world event and come away with different viewpoints regarding what happened.

    Until one of us is directly involved with any of the posted articles, we really are sifting through links, images, sounds and making a somewhat educated guess about what happened or what should happen.


    I'm pontificating on and simplifying RBP's post down to the moron level In fact, feel free to use the abbreviated form mor'n in my honor


    Great post RBP, no one likes being called a sheeple

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  19. #45
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    I forgot to mention that I do enjoy hearing different viewpoints and I love creative thinking....questioning the official party line


    and I'm lookin right at you FBD




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