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Thread: How much vacation time should we get?

  1. #1
    Mr Magoo RBP's Avatar
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    So... How much vacation time should we get?



    Americans earn fewer vacation days than people in most countries, but still leave 2 days unused on average.

    ============================================

    Richard Branson’s Unlimited Vacation Is a Trick

    Branson's latest announcement, giving his employees unlimited vacation time, fits with his benevolent philosophy of leadership and business success. And it has stirred up a lot of gushing for its boldness and the trust it expresses for employees.

    We remain skeptical.

    At first glance, Sir Richard seems to fit the mold of what we refer to as pragmatic benevolence. Benevolent leaders care about and listen to their employees. They recognize that talent and passion drive results, and that happy workers are more creative and engaged. And such leaders know that fostering debate and candor is a much better way to reveal creative ideas and innovative solutions than to lead from the top down. That is why benevolent leaders listen carefully to subordinates. Or as Branson puts it, “It’s so important to be a good listener. And so many people, they think they know it all and they like hearing their own voice, but being a good listener, you can get so many other ideas from other people to work out whether your idea is a good one or not.”

    But look closer and it is not so clear that the no-limits vacation policy benefits the people he claims to love so dearly. What is clear is that so-called “endless summer” vacation policies benefit the companies that implement them.

    First of all, they are good for the bottom line. By giving employees unlimited vacation time, instead of giving a set number, say 14 or 21, companies do not have to pay departing workers for unused days. That is a lot of money a company does not have to keep in the bank or on the books.

    Second, companies can highlight the policy in their recruiting efforts. Imagine a young (and relatively inexpensive) college graduate offered a job with Netflix or Virgin Mobile and told he can take as much vacation time as he wants, as long as he gets his work done. Sounds like college itself. Show me where to sign, dude!

    And third, if your main job is to draw attention to the Virgin Group (of which Branson is not its CEO or chairman, but rather listed only as founder), then announcing a no-limits vacation policy is destined to get the pundits gushing as usual. Free press. Practically free advertising.

    And if we look at it from the perspective of the beloved employees, unlimited vacation time is anything but unlimited. With one of the least generous vacation policy cultures in the industrialized world (only South Korean workers earn fewer vacation days), U.S. workers work more hours and later into life than in decades prior, and more so than workers in similar societies. More than a quarter of “guaranteed” vacation days go unused in the U.S. The two most vacation-deprived countries in the world are the U.S. and Japan.

    So is it really true that if you treat employees like adults, show them trust, and let them use their own judgment they will get more rest and be more productive?

    Nope.

    Hiring highly motivated and responsible people of course makes sense. But the same attributes that Branson looks for in his employees makes them less likely to take vacation time. All organizations have a combination of internal cooperation and competition. On the cooperation side, nearly all work in this modern age is accomplished by teams. People tend to feel loyal to their team members. When you take vacation time, who does your work while you are away? Your team! That is one reason people do not use their “guaranteed” paid time off. On the competition side, not everyone can get promoted at the same time, so management watches and evaluates each individual against others to determine who gets the raise, the promotion, or the place on the cool new project team. Are you sure you want to take that last week of the quarter off to travel with your family?

    And then there are the jobs that depend on day-to-day routine processing, rather than project work that comes to completion just in time for vacation (or not). If you have a job processing receivables, or maintaining equipment on a daily basis, or monitoring and responding to customer complaints, or working the helpdesk, or keeping up with social media, your absence, however limited, puts your work on your colleague’s desk. On a team of three, you just upped your buddy’s workload by half. How many days will you be gone?

    Finally, this new policy (or “policy-that-isn’t,” as Branson puts it) is highly ambiguous, and most people are reassured by a reasonable degree of structure. Tell someone she has exactly 21 days to use for vacation per year, and she has to use them without checking her email and that she does not have to worry about any problems while she is gone, and her mind will be more at rest than if you tell her to take all the time off she wants as long as she maintains the same level of performance and responsibility she would if she were in the office.

    In many of the situations above, even if you take a vacation, you will probably dial in remotely to stay up on some work, or respond to at least a few of the hundreds of emails otherwise waiting for you on that first Monday back.

    So we ask Sir Richard: Is this anything more than another stunt? One answer can be inferred from the original announcement he made in his blog:

    . . . simply stated, the policy-that-isn’t permits all salaried staff to take off whenever they want for as long as they want. There is no need to ask for prior approval and neither the employees themselves nor their managers are asked or expected to keep track of their days away from the office. It is left to the employee alone to decide if and when he or she feels like taking a few hours, a day, a week or a month off, the assumption being that they are only going to do it when they feel a hundred per cent comfortable that they and their team are up to date on every project and that their absence will not in any way damage the business – or, for that matter, their careers!

    Okay, now review those last two words about what he is warning people to be sure not to damage. Now ask yourself if you have ever been 100% comfortable about your career while working for a large corporation. Obviously someone is keeping track of something or this would not qualify as an organization. He is giving every salaried worker the opportunity to outperform colleagues. He is potentially undercutting cooperation, and probably adding to the stress of his employees. And he is even making it acceptable to take no time off.

    “Oh, please!” you might say. “That is such a cynical interpretation of such a wonderful and visionary policy.”

    So ask yourself this: Did he listen to his employees? We know he listened to his daughter, because the Daily Mail reported it, but nowhere is it reported that he involved his employees in the decision.

    Truly benevolent leaders, partly out of real caring and partly out of pragmatism, want their subordinates to honestly weigh in on many big questions, especially those that will affect motivation and well-being. Did he say to his employees, “What vacation policy is best for you and the company?” The new policy only affects his staff of less than 200 people. But he says if it is successful he will encourage other companies in the Virgin Group to offer the policy to more of its 50,000 employees worldwide. How much will he involve those employees in this next big decision?

    Will he ask for ideas and opinions from several hundred employees? Or several thousand? Will he encourage an internal research team to review the most effective vacation policies across industries? Will he hold focus groups? Will he make it clear that asking him tough questions or disagreeing with him or offering other ideas that he might not have considered or may not even feel comfortable with is not only okay but rewarded? Will he openly acknowledge that different people are motivated by different policies, and ask how can we offer unlimited vacation to some employees while others get a set amount of days that they have to take off without any negative consequences because the management structure will make sure the workaholics do not get rewarded more than involved fathers and mothers?

    Such a process of employee discussion inevitably involves constructive, passionate debate and tense but healthy conflict. And yet there could be huge payoffs before his next big announcement. Such a pragmatic and benevolent process will most likely result in a policy or combination of policies that make for a more motivated and satisfied workforce, and a lot of people going home to tell their families, “the boss really cares about my opinion, and about us.”

    But that would not produce much gushing in the press.

    http://time.com/3446598/richard-bran...about-vacation
    I wanted to be a Monk, but I never got the chants.

  2. #2
    21-Jazz hands salute Muddy's Avatar
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    I earned 25 days a year!

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    One Big Prick!! Cactus's Avatar
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    My company combines your vacation and sick time into one bank. So for your first five years, if you don't call in sick, you can take like 3 and half weeks. And they don't cash you at end of the year. After five years, you start getting more time quicker. At some point, you do top out and that depends on how long you have worked there.

    This is great, but finding a time when they would give you time can be tough. They block out weeks that you can't take time because of different issues and approve time based on staffing concerns. This was a big issue for me when I was working on a smaller team that covered a fairly large geographic area. It was tough from me because I am single and have no major commitments or planning concerns. People with families request their time off and plan vacation months in advance. While I might have friend that spontaneously want to take a weekend trip, but I can't get the days off because someone had time off. I have nearly 8 weeks of time banked. I was hoping to cap out, then they actually make you take your time off.

    Hopefully, since I just moved and transferred, getting time off will be easier.
    Last edited by Cactus; 10-01-2014 at 04:49 AM.

    never ran away for the sake of scars!!!

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    #DeSantis2024 Teh One Who Knocks's Avatar
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    I haven't taken a day off all year, I have all my vacation/sick time left still.

  5. #5
    Mr Magoo RBP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks View Post
    I haven't taken a day off all year, I have all my vacation/sick time left still.
    I wanted to be a Monk, but I never got the chants.

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  7. #6
    unedited FBD's Avatar
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    I took 2 weeks off back in april, a week a couple months ago, and I'm on a week right now. fuck that, my time is ultra valuable to me.

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    weapon of mass consumption redred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    I earned 25 days a year!
    i may work that this year

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    Shelter Dweller PorkChopSandwiches's Avatar
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    I have 4 weeks vacation and 6 Personal days, I use 100% of them every year






  10. #9
    Mr Magoo RBP's Avatar
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    Wow. I get 10 days. Then they told us we were changing to a PTO plan. But then they still only gave me 10 days.
    I wanted to be a Monk, but I never got the chants.

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    He who laughs, lasts. Noilly Pratt's Avatar
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    I was bugged that I had a bunch of days left, so that's why I took Monday, tues and today off. Just didn't go anywhere this year.

    Signature created way-back-when by Goofy

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    #DeSantis2024 Teh One Who Knocks's Avatar
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    We get our unused time paid out at the end of the year

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    Shelter Dweller PorkChopSandwiches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh One Who Knocks View Post
    We get our unused time paid out at the end of the year
    We dont, I have asked, I would prefer the money sometime. I end up taking time off to do nothing because its use it or lose it






  14. #13
    Dilly dilly Goofy's Avatar
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    I get 28 days per year total.......... and i happily use each and every one of them

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    unedited FBD's Avatar
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    I dont get anything back unless it is the extra that I have the ability to buy. Can carry over 5 to next year. But...cant carry over bought time, and "regular pto" gets "used" before bought PTO, so you cant buy and carry over in the same year. (For one year it is possible but not consecutive years, can carry some over if you didnt buy but then buy the following year, I did that once when I first found out about the option to buy extra.) having rolled 10 years I get 29 days and I buy 5 more, just cuz I can.

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    Dilly dilly Goofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBD View Post
    I dont get anything back unless it is the extra that I have the ability to buy. Can carry over 5 to next year. But...cant carry over bought time, and "regular pto" gets "used" before bought PTO, so you cant buy and carry over in the same year. (For one year it is possible but not consecutive years, can carry some over if you didnt buy but then buy the following year, I did that once when I first found out about the option to buy extra.) having rolled 10 years I get 29 days and I buy 5 more, just cuz I can.
    Those words look like English to me

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    PorkChopSandwiches (10-01-2014), RBP (10-01-2014)

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