Denmark Facebook sex video: More than 1,000 young people charged

[Teh One Who Knocks]

BBC News




More than 1,000 young people have been charged by police in Denmark with distributing sexually explicit material.

They are accused of using Facebook Messenger to share indecent video clips of two 15-year-olds having sex.

Police said it could amount to distribution of indecent images of children, as the two people filmed are under 18.

Facebook tipped off the US authorities, who notified police in Denmark.

One thousand and four young people from across the country are facing charges after allegedly circulating the material via the messaging app in autumn last year.

Some suspects are over 18 and were called to police stations to be interviewed.

Suspects under 18 were contacted through their parents.

A Danish police superintendent said the charges come as a warning to young people never to share sex videos.

Anyone found guilty of these charges faces a possible conditional prison sentence of about 20 days.

If found guilty of distributing indecent images of children, they would be listed for ten years on a register of child pornography offenders.

There have been calls in Denmark for more to be done to prevent so-called revenge porn.

[Godfather]

Anyone found guilty of these charges faces a possible conditional prison sentence of about 20 days.

What do you guys think about that? Seems actually quite fair, hopefully teaches a lesson and sends a message.

I wonder if they'd be on some sex offender registry for life though? I'd say given the stigma and potential vigilantism that would accompany it compared to the crime, I'd be pretty firmly opposed.

[DemonGeminiX]

The article said they'd be on a registry for 10 years, if found guilty.

[RBP]

What do you guys think about that? Seems actually quite fair, hopefully teaches a lesson and sends a message.

I wonder if they'd be on some sex offender registry for life though? I'd say given the stigma and potential vigilantism that would accompany it compared to the crime, I'd be pretty firmly opposed.

I'm only okay with it if the two 15-year-olds who produced the child porn are charged as well. Either it's child porn or it's not. It's not logical to only declare it child porn down stream without also prosecuting the ones that originally produced it.

As for the 20 days. What would the sentence be for a 40 year old male in possession of the video? They get that.

[Godfather]

Seems harsh (the second part), I'm surprised to hear that firm a stance.

My take: Tired argument but 15 year old brains are very different from 40 year olds, or even 25 year olds, their frontal cortex is a decade away from being 'fully developed' and leads to all kinds of horrible decisions. I'd feel safe betting most are not in the same category as the "average 40-year-old-man-who-has-teeny-porn", or won't be as adults. It's still a major invasion of privacy and wrong, but their intent and what it likely indicates about their tendencies and safety to society is probably quite a bit different - which I think would weigh heavily on the sentence for the 40-year-old?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Seems harsh (the second part), I'm surprised to hear that firm a stance.

My take: Tired argument but 15 year old brains are very different from 40 year olds, or even 25 year olds, their frontal cortex is a decade away from being 'fully developed' and leads to all kinds of horrible decisions. I'd feel safe betting most are not in the same category as the "average 40-year-old-man-who-has-teeny-porn", or won't be as adults. It's still a major invasion of privacy and wrong, but their intent and what it likely indicates about their tendencies and safety to society is probably quite a bit different - which I think would weigh heavily on the sentence for the 40-year-old?

Are you trying to posit that a 15 year old, in this day and age, doesn't know that it's wrong to have sex and record it for others to see?

[RBP]

Seems harsh (the second part), I'm surprised to hear that firm a stance.

My take: Tired argument but 15 year old brains are very different from 40 year olds, or even 25 year olds, their frontal cortex is a decade away from being 'fully developed' and leads to all kinds of horrible decisions. I'd feel safe betting most are not in the same category as the "average 40-year-old-man-who-has-teeny-porn", or won't be as adults. It's still a major invasion of privacy and wrong, but their intent and what it likely indicates about their tendencies and safety to society is probably quite a bit different - which I think would weigh heavily on the sentence for the 40-year-old?

I'm fine with the equivalent in juvenile court. My point is it has to be treated the same be it 15 or 40. If the judicial process varies based on juvenile verses adult court, then okay. What I am not okay with is treating the producer of child porn as a victim and the possessor of the same child porn as a monster.

Are you trying to posit that a 15 year old, in this day and age, doesn't know that it's wrong to have sex and record it for others to see?

Exactly. Even if they did... so what. We would treat an armed robbery as an armed robbery. Why is this different?

[Godfather]

Are you trying to posit that a 15 year old, in this day and age, doesn't know that it's wrong to have sex and record it for others to see?

No, that's not what I'm getting at, I'm just debating that it's the exact same scenario, but I understand RBP's perspective better now.

I do think it's different because a thousand kids did something that very very few adults would have the terrible judgment to do (perhaps because it's their 'peer' in their eyes?). When 1000 teens have participated, perhaps it's indicative of social issues, and not what I'd probably call a mental issue or sexual tendency with the 40-year old. Hence why I feel it's not the same as a 40-year old who does this.

Again it's a disturbing problem and wrong as I said, but yes I still feel that there is something different about the pathology behind 15 year olds watching/sharing 15 years having sex, than a legal adults committing the same crime. Both are an illegal invasion of privacy, but the latter indicates to me also indicates a potential pedophile. Both need punishment, they still needs to be charged - but not the same punishment or response.

[RBP]

I think it's different because a thousand kids did something that very very few adults would have the terrible judgment to do, perhaps because it's their 'peer' in their eyes. Hence why I feel it's not the same as a 40-year old who does this. It's a problem and wrong as I said, but yes I am saying I still feel that there is something different about it.

I don't see the difference between this and an underage sex tape shared on the internet. In fact, I'd be shocked this very recording isn't floating around. So an adult has it on his or her computer or phone, then what?

You didn't answer the other point. Should the producers of the underage porn also be prosecuted or do you consider them victims?

[Godfather]

I don't see the difference between this and an underage sex tape shared on the internet. In fact, I'd be shocked this very recording isn't floating around. So an adult has it on his or her computer or phone, then what?

You didn't answer the other point. Should the producers of the underage porn also be prosecuted or do you consider them victims?

Part 1: You're almost certainly right that it's out there sadly. Adult has it willfully on their phone? Not just invading privacy, but also I'd suspect them being a pedophile and additional sentencing should be brought - comparing that to the 15 year old kid who's friend's at school sent it to him and he/she passed it along down the chain too - still isn't the same to me... Again, both are serious crimes, the teens have no excuse, but I just don't suspect the latter as being a potential sex predator or continued supporter of the kiddie-porn industry even half as much - so I can't agree when you say 'they get what the 40 year old gets.' I think the sex offender registry was created partly because don't know how to correct sexual predators, like folks caught with hard drives full of this shit. I'm not sure what good adding most of the kids involved here in this story to such a list actually does for the world.

Part 2: I lean towards considering them victims of an invasion of privacy to an extent - but on societal scale, it has to be illegal... but I still qualify this by saying it's not then the same as adult who has made a porn video with/of minors. I come back to my same concern as above: the adult 'producer' of under-age porn is almost undeniably a more dangerous person to society long-term, than two 15 year olds who made a video of themselves and had it stolen - hence, different crime/punishments in my view.

[RBP]

So the same content for all parties. Not the production of child porn when produced, not possession of child porn when possessed by peers, not the distribution of child porn when distributed, but a sex-offender-registry-qualifying possession of child porn when possessed by an adult. Um. Wow. Alrighty then. That's a logical chasm I doubt we can bridge.

I seem to remember a case that used your logic. A father had the images on his phone and went to police to show them the evidence of what was going on, asking them to intervene. He was arrested for possession of child porn and nothing happened to the kids.

We all see a lot of sexual content. Fact is, we all assume what we are looking at is legal. But we don't really always know that. You used the word "willfully". I am unaware of that being a legal standard, and I doubt that would fly in court. Possession is possession, distribution is distribution, production is production.

[Godfather]

You ever feel like we should save up a list of the things we disagree on and then just have a quarterly phonecall I feel like I'm getting further from agreeing with you partly out of passive aggression for having to type out responses.

[RBP]

[Hal-9000]

I think it's about time we had a serious, visible punishment for incidents like this.

We've become way too tolerant of nudity and sexual situations to the point where some of it has become an expectation or a norm in children's lives.

15, 25... the age is unimportant in terms of warranting punishment. The core of the matter is sexually explicit material featuring underage people being propagated into the ethersphere.

If we don't get a handle on it and lock it down, pretty soon See Dick and Jane...will become quite another another type of grade school primer that all kids will expect and want to see.

[RBP]

I think it's about time we had a serious, visible punishment for incidents like this.

We've become way too tolerant of nudity and sexual situations to the point where some of it has become an expectation or a norm in children's lives.

15, 25... the age is unimportant in terms of warranting punishment. The core of the matter is sexually explicit material featuring underage people being propagated into the ethersphere.

If we don't get a handle on it and lock it down, pretty soon See Dick and Jane...will become quite another another type of grade school primer that all kids will expect and want to see.

I hear ya. I have taken that position for a long time. Until someone gets made an example, it will get worse. The contrast with other offenses is staggering. Kids get suspended for bringing ibuprofin to school. But send your underage vag to half the class and that's just kids being kids.

And heaven forbid that vag shot should land on an adult's phone...