Florida Teacher of the Year's gun violence post goes viral after school shooting

[Hal-9000]

No, it does not fire any faster than any other semi-auto firearm, including handguns. One trigger pull = one bullet. It fires the same as my 22 but is considerably more powerful (speed of the bullet, not the rate of fire). I agree some things may need to change, including bump-stocks. To my knowledge only one shooter has used that though.

"Assault rifle" is just a term twisted by the liberal media to describe any threatening looking weapon, by my definition an assault rifle would be a full-auto like those used by the military and are VERY hard and expensive to legally purchase. They are also very, very rare to see used in a shooting despite what action movies and the media would have us believe.

And you said home and personal protection, what about hunting and competitive sport shooting? The AR 15 is one of the more popular rifles used for hunting.

Also, an AR15 is not technically a model, more a style. It refers to the main firing mechanism but is mass produced by many different manufacturers under many different names. It seems to be the most commonly used weapon simply because it's popular do to it's "cool, military" appearance.

Basically, I'm all for banning (or highly regulating) bump stocks and any other mods that would increase the fire rate, I'm all for not allowing mentally ill and persons that are high risk of killing others such as a violent history, etc. Although in many cases those people are already felons and not legal to own any weapon. But banning the AR-style of weapon would only lead bad people to use another equally or more deadly weapon, ban those, they would move to the next on the list, etc,etc. leading to an all out ban on everything.

The overall stats show that it's a small percentage of people in the states doing almost all of the killing, I simply cannot get behind punishing law abiding people for the acts of a few.

Thanks for the info. Yeah it does look like a 'cool military' weapon and then upon closer inspection (to me) it looks like a really pimped out large handgun.

And disagreeing respectfully, I do believe changing laws because of the acts of a few. I don't think of it as 'punishing' law abiding people when you remove a weapon from retail circulation. And that's probably where my view starts to differ from yours on the subject. My Uncle was an avid hunter and ran a farm and Oooh Nelly that man had a collection of rifles. There was no shortage of models to choose from within even his small and private collection. They were all the 'hunting' style rifle if I'm going on optics alone. None of them resembled the AR15 style.

I heard some of the shooting at the Florida school. Not saying BS to your point about rate of fire, but the shots sounded quick.

[Hal-9000]

That Las Vegas guy had modified weapons didn't he? I listened to a real time vid from the ground at the concert and it sounded like constant popping noises for minutes at a time.

[Hal-9000]

This is a little strange and something I'm thankful for. No one has referred to this incident as the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre. Makes me wonder if the fuckstick who did it was hoping for that..

[Pony]

When we were young we would play SWAT. We made copies of the variations on machine guns and assault rifles that actual SWAT members used. Going on optics and capability, only police (and special police at that) used these weapons. Point being, you never saw anyone in the public owning and walking around with similar weapons.

Generally speaking you still don't see people walking around with them. Responsible owners typically have them in a case when they are heading to the range, going hunting, etc. The idiots you see on youtube walking down the streets with one are just that, idiots. Trying to make a "statement" that usually ends up scaring people and having the police show up.

Fast forward to more recent times, using the past 20 years as a waypoint, it seems the public has freer access to assault type weapons. Is that fair to say?

I want to know if there's a correlation between availability of certain types of weapons and more frequent school shootings. I can't recall very many school shootings before Columbine. I realize there have been horrible events like the Texas University clock tower shootings in the 60's, and the teen girl who the song I Don't Like Mondays is based on from the 70's, but statistically speaking, have school shootings in general occurred more often in the past two decades, than the previous three decades for example?

I don't know about freer access to them but generally speaking the biggest thing that has changed is society. We would play similar games when I was young but we both knew it was just that, playing. We knew that it's wrong to shoot people. You see the stories every day as I do, we live in a world that eats laundry pods and idolizes Honey boo-boo and the How bow dat girl. Reality TV is a bunch of people encouraged to act their worst for ratings and the media sensationalizes violence. The people that we make fun of on here because they are morons are the same people the younger generations are growing up emulating to be cool and popular.

As said by the teacher in this story, parents simply aren't involved with raising their kids anymore, some of my friends are just as guilty, they want to be the kids best friend and the kids are being raised by what they see on the modern babysitter (TV).

One friend of mine in particular is exactly like this teacher says, The teacher calls her with an issue and she goes postal on the teacher convinced that Teach has it out for her kid and is treating him unfairly. Same girl I invited to the island over the summer so she could have a cheap vacation with her kids. She brought her (uninvited) fling of the week with her and spent the whole weekend wasted on vodka, fucking him while the kids sat in front of the TV and basically survived on junk food for breakfast, lunch and dinner. her poor little girl woke up every morning and put on her bathing suit to go to the pool like mom promised and day after day mom woke up hungover and broke that promise. I spent more time with them than she did. Took the 12YO boy exploring around the island and ended up spending half the afternoon with her daughter at the pool on the last day they were there.

Wow, that kinda turned into a rant, eh?

[Pony]

I heard some of the shooting at the Florida school. Not saying BS to your point about rate of fire, but the shots sounded quick.

As quick as you can pull and release the trigger. Granted that can be pretty fast, but no faster than any other semi-auto or even a revolver.

That Las Vegas guy had modified weapons didn't he? I listened to a real time vid from the ground at the concert and it sounded like constant popping noises for minutes at a time.

Yes, the Vegas guy had some modified weapons, I believe with bump stocks. That's the only shooting I know of offhand that used a modified weapon.

[Pony]

And disagreeing respectfully, I do believe changing laws because of the acts of a few. I don't think of it as 'punishing' law abiding people when you remove a weapon from retail circulation. And that's probably where my view starts to differ from yours on the subject. My Uncle was an avid hunter and ran a farm and Oooh Nelly that man had a collection of rifles. There was no shortage of models to choose from within even his small and private collection. They were all the 'hunting' style rifle if I'm going on optics alone. None of them resembled the AR15 style.

I'm sure that many of of them were semi-auto and some fired a decent sized round, add a larger capacity magazine to any one of those and they would be equally comparable to the AR15. The only other differences are strictly cosmetic. Such as a shorter stock, hand grip and a menacing black color.

[Hal-9000]

Generally speaking you still don't see people walking around with them. Responsible owners typically have them in a case when they are heading to the range, going hunting, etc. The idiots you see on youtube walking down the streets with one are just that, idiots. Trying to make a "statement" that usually ends up scaring people and having the police show up.



I don't know about freer access to them but generally speaking the biggest thing that has changed is society. We would play similar games when I was young but we both knew it was just that, playing. We knew that it's wrong to shoot people. You see the stories every day as I do, we live in a world that eats laundry pods and idolizes Honey boo-boo and the How bow dat girl. Reality TV is a bunch of people encouraged to act their worst for ratings and the media sensationalizes violence. The people that we make fun of on here because they are morons are the same people the younger generations are growing up emulating to be cool and popular.

As said by the teacher in this story, parents simply aren't involved with raising their kids anymore, some of my friends are just as guilty, they want to be the kids best friend and the kids are being raised by what they see on the modern babysitter (TV).

One friend of mine in particular is exactly like this teacher says, The teacher calls her with an issue and she goes postal on the teacher convinced that Teach has it out for her kid and is treating him unfairly. Same girl I invited to the island over the summer so she could have a cheap vacation with her kids. She brought her (uninvited) fling of the week with her and spent the whole weekend wasted on vodka, fucking him while the kids sat in front of the TV and basically survived on junk food for breakfast, lunch and dinner. her poor little girl woke up every morning and put on her bathing suit to go to the pool like mom promised and day after day mom woke up hungover and broke that promise. I spent more time with them than she did. Took the 12YO boy exploring around the island and ended up spending half the afternoon with her daughter at the pool on the last day they were there.

Wow, that kinda turned into a rant, eh?

No, not all

It's a multi-pronged problem and I think there are a lot of elements contributing to more instances of these events.

Brenda Spencer was the I Don't Like Mondays girl, who shot at elementary school students from her house across the street. She was 16. Her Dad gave her a 22 rifle for Christmas and she claimed that the had abused her physically and sexually. She felt Dad gave her the gun so she would kill herself. If you delve into her past a little, there's both nurture vs nature arguments for her actions. Apparently she had an injury to the temporal lobe of her brain. One detective said it was fortunate she wasn't a very good shot, because she waited until the children were lined up waiting to be let in a gate to the school. She fired 30 rounds and only killed two people. Still two too many but it could of been a lot worse considering the proximity.

Head and brain injuries are common in serial killers and some spree killers. They found a tumor on Charles Whitman's brain and he had been complaining of headaches and violent impulses for a year before he shot people from the clock tower in Texas.

And as discussed in other threads, depression, isolation and social media seem to gel into this new version of teen angst where they feel the need to hurt other children. If you really dig into the Columbine story, the two assholes were not bullied or abused by other students. They were outcasts as a result of their own choosing. A lot of girls liked one of the guys and he was considered cool.

It really seems some children's minds have this need to fabricate a narrative that says - I'm depressed and not worthy. So I'll make a name for myself. It's really too bad those same damaged minds don't take the first shot at themselves. Hardcore view I know...

[Pony]

No, not all

It's a multi-pronged problem and I think there are a lot of elements contributing to more instances of these events.

It's really too bad those same damaged minds don't take the first shot at themselves. Hardcore view I know...

Agreed, and Yes, a hardcore view but still preferable to the alternative.

FYI here's some info on modern sporting rifles, not trying to persuade you of anything just it's never a bad thing to be well informed.
https://www.nssf.org/msr/

I've also been poking around about the history of semi-automatic weapons, Semi Auto rifles were commercially available to the public the first decade of the 1900's and first issued to military in the 1930's. Interesting stuff.

[Hal-9000]

What? I ain't gonna click on that Charlton Heston link....It will affect my browser history


thanks

[Pony]

What? I ain't gonna click on that Charlton Heston link....It will affect my browser history


thanks

Can't be any worse than your history from here.

*looks up Hal's secret viewing habits*

[Hal-9000]

Can't be any worse than your history from here.

*looks up Hal's secret viewing habits*

I clicked that link and immediately got an email removing me from Oprah's Book of the Month Club...wtf

[DemonGeminiX]

I'll just put my two cents in here again:

"A well-trained militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people, to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

This is the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. If you dig into history you'll find several facts:

a) it became the Second Amendment after negotiations with those founders that thought the right of free speech, religion, press, et al was more important. It originally was supposed to be the First Amendment. This is absolutely true. The right to keep and bear arms was one of several reasons why we declared Independence from Britain and went to war. Among other things, the British tried to take our guns away so we wouldn't be able to fight back from their unfair targeted policies and tariffs. Like most tyrannical governments do. Either way, without this Amendment, no other Amendment can stand, and neither can our rights.

b) It is an individual right. "...the right of the people... shall not be infringed." It doesn't say "shall not be infringed... except in times when it would make people feel better if we just ignore it." No. Shall not be infringed. Period. End of. Not by the feds, not by any executive bureau, not by any state, not by any city, county or local government. Not by the fucking UN. Not by more advanced alien civilizations coming to conquer the world. No one has the right or power to take this right away from us citizens.

c) It is not limiting. It does not say "To keep and bear arms... except for those scary looking guns, or except for aftermarket parts that make semi-auto guns fire at a higher rate comparable to an automatic." Technically speaking, by the 2nd Amendment as citizens of this nation, we have the right to possess any weapon available on this Earth, regardless of how deadly it is. Technically speaking, and as ridiculous as it sounds, we have the right under the Second Amendment to have a nuclear ICBM in our backyards if we wanted to. The founding fathers wanted us to be armed to the teeth with the deadliest weapons available in our time, not for hunting, not for sport, but to fight against any tyranny, foreign or domestic, that would seek to take away our liberties. Like it or not, the founding fathers wanted us to be a modern-day Sparta, for lack of a better analogy. They fully expected us to sack our own federal government, if the situation so called for it. It's up to us citizens to fight for our freedoms, because any military/police force, tools of government, can be used against a populace to bend that populace to the government's will, assuming that populace is unarmed. Subsequently, the 1934 NFA is unconstitutional, the Hughes Amendment of 1986 is unconstitutional, any Congressional ban or limitation is unconstitutional, any state ban or limitation is unconstitutional, etc etc etc

My heart breaks for these kids and their families. Every well-adjusted gun owner feels this way. But, there is something far bigger at stake, and that is why we cannot give in a single inch.

Let's shift to the topic at hand: This kid is sick, and his illness is symptomatic of a civilization in decline. Maybe that last part is going a bit far, but think about it: Isolation is not good for a developing mind. This kid was isolated, like most kids are nowadays. Everybody is stuck behind digital screens. From what I understand, kids are only engaging with each other in school then coming home to their digital friends. That's not good. Human beings are social animals. We function best in a group social system. Kids need it the most of all. There are valuable lessons to be learned there.

This kid seems to be devoid of any moral grounding whatsoever. You see it everywhere now. In this case, this kid clearly had no respect for life. Like it or hate it, but there needs to be some kind of moral education in a healthy society. Now go look at what's on TV. Self-centered whores and assholes. Everywhere. Gotta get paid, gotta get theirs. Taking no responsibility for the bad decisions that they make. And we're drinking it up. I hate to break the news to you guys, but we indeed were a better nation back in the day before the digital age. Back when you had to look somebody in the eye a little more often. Back when most people were going to church. Sorry, Porky, but it's completely true.

50 years ago, kids were taught how to handle firearms. Loaded ones. They were taught to respect the sanctity of life. They didn't go around killing their classmates in schools. We didn't have to worry about shit like this back then. Obviously, something's changed for the worse.

Parent's don't know what the fuck they're doing anymore. They're not involved in their kid's lives. They're either completely oblivious, or they're so determined to be their kid's best friend that they forgo all semblances of discipline. You can't be their best friend and their parent too. It just doesn't work.

Communities are full of self-centered people too busy to take a look around to see what the hell's going on. Remember back in the day when we were kids? If we were doing bad shit outside out of view of our parents, the neighbors would come out and yell at us and tell us that they were going to tell our parents? Then parents would beat the crap out of us for not only doing something bad, but also making them look bad in the eyes of the neighbors? That doesn't happen anymore. This kid was killing his neighbor's animals and nobody said anything? The police were called to the family's house 39 times and nobody thought to question it? The kids he went to school with thought he was weird enough to vote him "Most likely to shoot up a school"? That didn't tell anybody anything? Were the adults not paying attention enough to say, "I wonder why the kids feel this way about this guy? Maybe I should look into this?" Zero tolerance, they expel him for whatever, and leading up to that point, nobody thought to stop and talk to the kid over the years? Teachers? Neighbors? Counselors? Other kids? Does this not qualify as a "Come on, man!"?

The FBI definitely dropped the ball, but hindsight is 20/20. So many balls have been dropped in this situation leading up to this tragedy. So many fingers to point in so many directions. Not one of those fingers belongs pointing at our right to keep and bear arms, or the kinds of guns we can get our hands on. The person commits the crime. We punish the person that commits the crime. We don't punish the rest of the people for the crime this completely unrelated person committed, nor do we blame the tools used to commit the crime. If you get rear-ended at a stop sign, you don't blame the car, you don't blame the residents of the neighborhood that you were in... you blame the driver that rammed his front end up your ass... because nothing else makes any god damned logical sense.

You want to prevent this from happening again? Engage every student from the time they are small until they are older. Keep in contact with these kids. Make sure they're ok. If you find a problem, don't just shrug it off. Don't say it's somebody else's problem. Get involved. Take a moment out of your busy fucking schedule and help the kid. Either do it yourself, or get a professional involved. Take away the devices. Get them away from the TV. Make kids interact face to face. Let them learn about the consequences of the things they do and say. Teach them to deal with pain and disappointment, and to persevere in the face of adversity. To rise up. Teach them to care about something other than themselves. Give them a moral foundation and a solid social structure.

[DemonGeminiX]

I'll just put my two cents in here again:

"A well-trained militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people, to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

This is the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. If you dig into history you'll find several facts:

a) it became the Second Amendment after negotiations with those founders that thought the right of free speech, religion, press, et al was more important. It originally was supposed to be the First Amendment. This is absolutely true. The right to keep and bear arms was one of several reasons why we declared Independence from Britain and went to war. Among other things, the British tried to take our guns away so we wouldn't be able to fight back from their unfair targeted policies and tariffs. Like most tyrannical governments do. Either way, without this Amendment, no other Amendment can stand, and neither can our rights.

b) It is an individual right. "...the right of the people... shall not be infringed." It doesn't say "shall not be infringed... except in times when it would make people feel better if we just ignore it." No. Shall not be infringed. Period. End of. Not by the feds, not by any executive bureau, not by any state, not by any city, county or local government. Not by the fucking UN. Not by more advanced alien civilizations coming to conquer the world. No one has the right or power to take this right away from us citizens.

c) It is not limiting. It does not say "To keep and bear arms... except for those scary looking guns, or except for aftermarket parts that make semi-auto guns fire at a higher rate comparable to an automatic." Technically speaking, by the 2nd Amendment as citizens of this nation, we have the right to possess any weapon available on this Earth, regardless of how deadly it is. Technically speaking, and as ridiculous as it sounds, we have the right under the Second Amendment to have a nuclear ICBM in our backyards if we wanted to. The founding fathers wanted us to be armed to the teeth with the deadliest weapons available in our time, not for hunting, not for sport, but to fight against any tyranny, foreign or domestic, that would seek to take away our liberties. Like it or not, the founding fathers wanted us to be a modern-day Sparta, for lack of a better analogy. They fully expected us to sack our own federal government, if the situation so called for it. It's up to us citizens to fight for our freedoms, because any military/police force, tools of government, can be used against a populace to bend that populace to the government's will, assuming that populace is unarmed. Subsequently, the 1934 NFA is unconstitutional, the Hughes Amendment of 1986 is unconstitutional, any Congressional ban or limitation is unconstitutional, any state ban or limitation is unconstitutional, etc etc etc

My heart breaks for these kids and their families. Every well-adjusted gun owner feels this way. But, there is something far bigger at stake, and that is why we cannot give in a single inch.

Let's shift to the topic at hand: This kid is sick, and his illness is symptomatic of a civilization in decline. Maybe that last part is going a bit far, but think about it: Isolation is not good for a developing mind. This kid was isolated, like most kids are nowadays. Everybody is stuck behind digital screens. From what I understand, kids are only engaging with each other in school then coming home to their digital friends. That's not good. Human beings are social animals. We function best in a group social system. Kids need it the most of all. There are valuable lessons to be learned there.

This kid seems to be devoid of any moral grounding whatsoever. You see it everywhere now. In this case, this kid clearly had no respect for life. Like it or hate it, but there needs to be some kind of moral education in a healthy society. Now go look at what's on TV. Self-centered whores and assholes. Everywhere. Gotta get paid, gotta get theirs. Taking no responsibility for the bad decisions that they make. And we're drinking it up. I hate to break the news to you guys, but we indeed were a better nation back in the day before the digital age. Back when you had to look somebody in the eye a little more often. Back when most people were going to church. Sorry, Porky, but it's completely true.

50 years ago, kids were taught how to handle firearms. Loaded ones. They were taught to respect the sanctity of life. They didn't go around killing their classmates in schools. We didn't have to worry about shit like this back then. Obviously, something's changed for the worse.

Parent's don't know what the fuck they're doing anymore. They're not involved in their kid's lives. They're either completely oblivious, or they're so determined to be their kid's best friend that they forgo all semblances of discipline. You can't be their best friend and their parent too. It just doesn't work.

Communities are full of self-centered people too busy to take a look around to see what the hell's going on. Remember back in the day when we were kids? If we were doing bad shit outside out of view of our parents, the neighbors would come out and yell at us and tell us that they were going to tell our parents? Then parents would beat the crap out of us for not only doing something bad, but also making them look bad in the eyes of the neighbors? That doesn't happen anymore. This kid was killing his neighbor's animals and nobody said anything? The police were called to the family's house 39 times and nobody thought to question it? The kids he went to school with thought he was weird enough to vote him "Most likely to shoot up a school"? That didn't tell anybody anything? Were the adults not paying attention enough to say, "I wonder why the kids feel this way about this guy? Maybe I should look into this?" Zero tolerance, they expel him for whatever, and leading up to that point, nobody thought to stop and talk to the kid over the years? Teachers? Neighbors? Counselors? Other kids? Does this not qualify as a "Come on, man!"?

The FBI definitely dropped the ball, but hindsight is 20/20. So many balls have been dropped in this situation leading up to this tragedy. So many fingers to point in so many directions. Not one of those fingers belongs pointing at our right to keep and bear arms, or the kinds of guns we can get our hands on. The person commits the crime. We punish the person that commits the crime. We don't punish the rest of the people for the crime this completely unrelated person committed, nor do we blame the tools used to commit the crime. If you get rear-ended at a stop sign, you don't blame the car, you don't blame the residents of the neighborhood that you were in... you blame the driver that rammed his front end up your ass... because nothing else makes any god damned logical sense.

You want to prevent this from happening again? Engage every student from the time they are small until they are older. Keep in contact with these kids. Make sure they're ok. If you find a problem, don't just shrug it off. Don't say it's somebody else's problem. Get involved. Take a moment out of your busy fucking schedule and help the kid. Either do it yourself, or get a professional involved. Take away the devices. Get them away from the TV. Make kids interact face to face. Let them learn about the consequences of the things they do and say. Teach them to deal with pain and disappointment, and to persevere in the face of adversity. To rise up. Teach them to care about something other than themselves. Give them a moral foundation and a solid social structure.

[redred]

thats 4 cents but whos counting

[Hal-9000]

"Not one of those fingers belongs pointing at our right to keep and bear arms, or the kinds of guns we can get our hands on."

I disagree as available weaponry is part of the problem. Availability shouldn't be discounted when the problem keeps reoccurring.

"If you get rear-ended at a stop sign, you don't blame the car, you don't blame the residents of the neighborhood that you were in... you blame the driver that rammed his front end up your ass..."

Comparing automobile accidents to shooting deaths are two completely different situations, a straw man argument if there ever was one. One is a weapon, one is a method of conveyance.

Some are obviously strong supporters of the second amendment. Yet stating what it is and what it's supposed to represent doesn't reduce or change these death statistics. Maybe it's time to consider that the amendment itself isn't really protecting citizens as it was intended. No one is saying or has ever said that responsible gun owners don't feel the effects of these incidents. No one is saying (not me anyhow) that the second amendment should be removed. These incidents keep happening and the death tolls continue to rise. So something is obviously not working.

As mentioned, I believe it's a multi-pronged approach to work towards a solution and by saying 'this part of the equation shouldn't be touched or pointed at', may be part of the bigger problem.