NHL and other ice hockey discussion

[samarchepas]

Wow. The Rangers. The East is gonna be rough this year.

And they practically robbed Columbus too :lol: (Dubinsky and Anisimov and a kid that played 18 in the NHL)
BTW its nothing new for them...they almost get a big name every year and it still doesn't give them the Cup :lol:

[samarchepas]

The Predators Matched the Offer Sheet the Flyers made to Weber, they may trade him in a year from now :lol: (They can't now)

[DemonGeminiX]

:meh:

Come on Bobby Ryan!

[samarchepas]

:meh:

Come on Bobby Ryan!

I'd look for defense if I were Holmgren (It doesn't look like Pronger will be back any time soon)

[Godfather]

The Predators Matched the Offer Sheet the Flyers made to Weber, they may trade him in a year from now :lol: (They can't now)

I'd still love to know how Shea felt about that...

[samarchepas]

I'd still love to know how Shea felt about that...
He thought that they could not do it obviously :lol: ( The 4 first years of his contract are worth 14M$ and two are worth 12M$, with a cap hit of 7.8M$ )
The strategy Holmgren used almost worked too (They took all week to decide)
I don't see him being there for his entire contract. :lol:

[Godfather]

He thought that they could not do it obviously :lol: ( The 4 first years of his contract are worth 14M$ and two are worth 12M$, with a cap hit of 7.8M$ )
The strategy Holmgren used almost worked too (They took all week to decide)
I don't see him being there for his entire contract. :lol:


I'd love to know how bad he wants out, being the Captain of the team who signed the offer.

On a strictly budgetary level I'd think he would know they could technically match. That same money was earmarked and budgeted for him and Sutter to resign, along with a free agent like possibly Parise. The fact that everything went to shit really didn't leave the Preds with many options, they were up against a wall.

Totally agreed, he won't be there his entire contract... if for no other reason than he would be a 40 year old 240lb defenseman. How many of those last until they're 40 :lol:

[samarchepas]

I meant on a personal level really. I'd love to know how bad he wants out, being a Captain of the team who signed an offer sheet.

On a strictly budgetary level I'd think he would know they could technically do it. That same money was earmarked and budgeted for him and Sutter to resign, along with a free agent like possibly Parise. It really didn't leave the Preds with many options.

It's clear that he wants out (Suter is out, a good friend of his and it had "issues" with his team in term of contrat with the Preds)
He made the mistake to give it a shot with the Flyers, all he had to do is wait another year and then leave.
I'm guessing that he will leave in a year or two, his contract has no NTC

[Godfather]

It's clear that he wants out (Suter is out, a good friend of his and it had "issues" with his team in term of contrat with the Preds)
He made the mistake to give it a shot with the Flyers, all he had to do is wait another year and then leave.
I'm guessing that he will leave in a year or two, his contract has no NTC

That's why I don't think it's so black and white what the guy wants... if he wanted to go, why not ask for a trade, or sign and trade, or dabble more in Free Agency. It's not like nobody told him he could do that :lol: He knew that the Preds could match if he signed that offer sheet. Weber is a very classy guy, he's not going to pull a Lindros and refuse to wear the jersey and I doubt he'd even publicly demand a trade. So why gamble your future by putting a signature on that offer, if you're so sure you want to go.

Maybe he just wants that paycheck ;) He's now the 2nd highest paid guy in the league, and doesn't have to move his family ever...

I'm more towards your argument, but I'm just playing devil's advocate

[samarchepas]

That's why I don't think it's so black and white what the guy wants... if he wanted to go, why not ask for a trade, or sign and trade, or dabble more in Free Agency. It's not like nobody told him he could do that :lol: He knew that the Preds could match if he signed that offer sheet. Weber is a very classy guy, he's not going to pull a Lindros and refuse to wear the jersey and I doubt he'd even publicly demand a trade. So why gamble your future by putting a signature on that offer, if you're so sure you want to go.

Maybe he just wants that paycheck ;) He's now the 2nd highest paid guy in the league, and doesn't have to move his family ever...

I'm more towards your argument, but I'm just playing devil's advocate

He would have gotten that paycheck anyway though :lol: (Maybe not with the Preds but he would have)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

The Associated Press


BOSTON (AP) -- Tuukka Rask was caught off guard - just a little - when he heard fellow Bruins goalie Tim Thomas decided not to play next season.

Surprised? Yes.

Shocked? Not so much.

''I wasn't expecting him to do that, obviously,'' Boston's new starting goalie said Thursday at a charity event. ''But I really appreciated what he's done and I appreciate his decision to want to be with the family and take some time off hockey.

''It really didn't shock me that much, but I'm more sad to see him leave because we had a really good connection and friendship going on. But I'm sure he's happy now where he is, and gets to spend time with his family.''

And so the Bruins - one year removed from winning the Stanley Cup - journey on with Rask in net.

It's not a bad option, of course, just a different one.

Rask, after all, had a 2.05 goals-against average in 25 games last season after posting a 2.67 in 29 games in 2010-11. The previous season, he was stellar - registering a 1.97 clip - in 45 games, and even played more than Thomas as the pieces of what would become a championship team were still coming into place.

Still only 25, Rask will be a restricted free agent after this season, should he and the club not come to a long-term agreement. He avoided salary arbitration by signing a one-year contract worth $3.5 million, more than double the $1.5 million he made last season. Other goalies in similar situations signed longer deals, but Rask and management agreed to see how his first season as the No. 1 plays out before negotiating again.

''A lot of people were a little surprised about the contract and stuff,'' he said after visiting children at the Jimmy Fund Clinic of the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. ''But I can't tell the team that I want a long contract because I am at the age where I would have gone to arbitration.

''So we just figured that it's best for both of us. And then if I have a good year, then maybe (I'll) sign up a longer deal.''

Under the current collective bargaining agreement, Rask can be a restricted free agent again after next season, but that can change depending on the results of the labor situation. The current CBA expires on Sept. 15, and the season is slated to start on Oct. 11. Talks between the NHL and NHLPA will continue next week in New York.

Thomas played every minute of the Bruins' 2011 run to the Stanley Cup. Then he played all seven games of the first-round ouster last season by Washington. The latter came after the Bruins won 49 games in a grueling season that resulted in a Northeast Division crown and the No. 2 seed in the Eastern Conference. So, it's been a grind for Thomas, 38. The last three postseason series Boston has played, in fact, have gone the distance.

Thomas plans to sit out the final year of his contract, but hopes to return the following season and earn a spot on the U.S. Olympic team. He was on Team USA in 2010 in Vancouver.

''Everybody knew he was a little tired, because he played a lot the past two years,'' Rask said. ''But he didn't seem like he was exhausted mentally or anything like that.''

Anton Khudobin is in line to be Rask's backup if and when training camp opens.

[samarchepas]

The Associated Press


BOSTON (AP) -- Tuukka Rask was caught off guard - just a little - when he heard fellow Bruins goalie Tim Thomas decided not to play next season.

Surprised? Yes.

Shocked? Not so much.

''I wasn't expecting him to do that, obviously,'' Boston's new starting goalie said Thursday at a charity event. ''But I really appreciated what he's done and I appreciate his decision to want to be with the family and take some time off hockey.

''It really didn't shock me that much, but I'm more sad to see him leave because we had a really good connection and friendship going on. But I'm sure he's happy now where he is, and gets to spend time with his family.''

And so the Bruins - one year removed from winning the Stanley Cup - journey on with Rask in net.

It's not a bad option, of course, just a different one.

Rask, after all, had a 2.05 goals-against average in 25 games last season after posting a 2.67 in 29 games in 2010-11. The previous season, he was stellar - registering a 1.97 clip - in 45 games, and even played more than Thomas as the pieces of what would become a championship team were still coming into place.

Still only 25, Rask will be a restricted free agent after this season, should he and the club not come to a long-term agreement. He avoided salary arbitration by signing a one-year contract worth $3.5 million, more than double the $1.5 million he made last season. Other goalies in similar situations signed longer deals, but Rask and management agreed to see how his first season as the No. 1 plays out before negotiating again.

''A lot of people were a little surprised about the contract and stuff,'' he said after visiting children at the Jimmy Fund Clinic of the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute. ''But I can't tell the team that I want a long contract because I am at the age where I would have gone to arbitration.

''So we just figured that it's best for both of us. And then if I have a good year, then maybe (I'll) sign up a longer deal.''

Under the current collective bargaining agreement, Rask can be a restricted free agent again after next season, but that can change depending on the results of the labor situation. The current CBA expires on Sept. 15, and the season is slated to start on Oct. 11. Talks between the NHL and NHLPA will continue next week in New York.

Thomas played every minute of the Bruins' 2011 run to the Stanley Cup. Then he played all seven games of the first-round ouster last season by Washington. The latter came after the Bruins won 49 games in a grueling season that resulted in a Northeast Division crown and the No. 2 seed in the Eastern Conference. So, it's been a grind for Thomas, 38. The last three postseason series Boston has played, in fact, have gone the distance.

Thomas plans to sit out the final year of his contract, but hopes to return the following season and earn a spot on the U.S. Olympic team. He was on Team USA in 2010 in Vancouver.

''Everybody knew he was a little tired, because he played a lot the past two years,'' Rask said. ''But he didn't seem like he was exhausted mentally or anything like that.''

Anton Khudobin is in line to be Rask's backup if and when training camp opens.
Ready or not, it doesn't change anything right? :lol: (Thanks to Thomas)
I also think he is...but the Bruins didn't have much of a choice here.

[Joebob034]

got my winter classic tickets :dance:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By James Murphy | ESPNBoston.com


In a radio interview Monday on WEEI, Bruins principal and alternate governor Charlie Jacobs weighed in on goalie Tim Thomas, whose decision to forgo his final season of his contract and leave the Bruins hanging with a $5 million cap hit remains a hot topic.

Jacobs, the son of owner Jeremy Jacobs, expressed confidence that the Bruins will be able to unload Thomas in a trade despite his intention to sit out the 2012-13 season.

"Timmy's going to do what he wants to do, and you know what? I bet we'll get something for him if he elects not to come back," Charlie Jacobs told WEEI. "And there is in fact a floor for the salary cap this upcoming season, I can see teams trading for that $5 million cap [hit] to bring their team up to the floor.

"So I think there will be a market for a player, as ironic as it sounds, there will be a market for a player who's not going to play next year."

Jacobs also questioned Thomas' thought process for skipping the entire season.

"I'm having a hard time wrapping my ahead around that whole line of logic," Jacobs said. "I respect Timmy and I respect his decision, but at 38. ... I want to say he'll be 39 by the time he comes back, taking a year off from pro hockey, from the National Hockey League, from the show, I don't see how it's possible to come back and play at that level. He may prove us all wrong, but I would be stunned. This is prime earning potential for him. This is not chump change -- we're talking 5 million bucks -- and the possibility of another deal if he does perform well."

[samarchepas]

Who would want a player that won't play anyway? :lol: (If you just want to get out of Boston...just ask a trade and move on)

[Godfather]

got my winter classic tickets :dance:

I hope they salvage this season in time for you to enjoy that man :( I think it might be the first game of the year... there is too much lost revenue from locking out the Winter Classic.

[samarchepas]

I hope they salvage this season in time for you to enjoy that man :( I think it might be the first game of the year... there is too much lost revenue from locking out the Winter Classic.

With Bettman and his 30 bosses, you never know! :lol:......:sad:

[Godfather]

The most recent proposal sounds quite fair... reduction to 50% profit sharing over 4 years. I hope the players just accept it, or counter-offer something very reasonable :wha:

[DemonGeminiX]

Doesn't look like there's gonna be any hockey this year.

[Godfather]

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/15/98/02/63/54817310.jpg

[DemonGeminiX]

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/15/98/02/63/54817310.jpg

I've got Antichrist Superstar stuck in my head now.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/15/98/02/63/54817310.jpg

Dude, it's the players fault just as much as it's his and the owners fault.

[Godfather]

Oh I couldn't agree more, there is plenty of blame to go around at this point. He's just fun to hate :lol:


Did you see the NHL players video :roll: I died a little.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RCW0VsfR9FM

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Yeah, he's easily the worst commissioner in the 4 major sports leagues, that's for sure.

Haven't seen the video yet, dunno if I wanna :lol:

[samarchepas]

Bettman must be the only commissioner in a professional sport to have been through *3* lock-outs! (He seems to take some pride from it!)

[Godfather]

You know the Flyers all showed up for their team foundation charity golf tourny days before they were locked out... but a week later now that the lockout has started, nobody from staff, coaches, management, ownership showed up for Scott Hartnell's charity tourny because Bettman allegedly told them in an email no fraternizing?! Those tournaments are charity foundations lifeline. That's some heartless bullshit right there.

[samarchepas]

You know the Flyers all showed up for their team foundation charity golf tourny days before they were locked out... but a week later now that the lockout has started, nobody from staff, coaches, management, ownership showed up for Scott Hartnell's charity tourny because Bettman allegedly told them in an email no fraternizing?! Those tournaments are charity foundations lifeline. That's some heartless bullshit right there.

That goes to show that Bettman ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT CARE about the fans...they are a source of revenue and that is all there is to it. (Same kind of tournament for the Habs tomorrow, should be interesting to see if the same BS happens)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

That goes to show that Bettman ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT CARE about the fans...they are a source of revenue and that is all there is to it. (Same kind of tournament for the Habs tomorrow, should be interesting to see if the same BS happens)

The same could be said about the players, but I guess it's always more fashionable to blame management instead.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By RACHEL COHEN (AP Sports Writer) | The Associated Press


NEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL canceled its entire September preseason game schedule on Wednesday, the first on-ice casualty of the four-day lockout.

The league is wiping out all games through Sept. 30, a move it deems ''necessary because of the absence of a collective bargaining agreement'' with the players' association.

The NHL also said the 2012 Kraft Hockeyville preseason game, scheduled for Oct. 3 in Belleville, Ontario, has been postponed until 2013, bringing the total to 60 games called off on Wednesday.

The regular season is scheduled to begin on Oct. 11.

NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said the league has ''no set policy on cancellations'' of other games.

Also Wednesday, a person familiar with the plan says NHL employees at the league offices will switch to a four-day work week Oct. 1 because of the lockout.

The move will effectively cut salaries by 20 percent. The person spoke on condition of anonymity Wednesday because the NHL hadn't made the plan public.

The news was first reported by The Canadian Press.

The Florida Panthers and Ottawa Senators have let staff go because of the lockout, while several other teams have said they don't have any plans to do so as of now.

The league locked out its players at 12:01 a.m. Sunday, its fourth shutdown since 1992.

The preseason cancellations included a Washington Capitals game against the Columbus Blue Jackets on Sept. 26 in Baltimore.

Last year, in the inaugural Baltimore Hockey Classic, the Capitals hosted the Nashville Predators and drew a sold-out crowd.

[Godfather]

Cancelling those preseason games means tens of thousands of kids and people in small towns lose the opportunity to see a pro hockey game they'd otherwise never get. :|

There's talk here that a group of players might play some games for fans in non-NHL arenas where available like in the last lockout. That'd be cool.

[Richard Cranium]

We have had a huge increase in attendance at our beer league games so far this season..

I counted at least 10 people in the stands. I was of course scored on while I was counting but its not my fault because I had to take both gloves off to count that high..

[Godfather]

:lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Ovechkin: ‘If our contracts get slashed, I will have to think whether to return there or not’
By Katie Carrera - The Washington Post


Alex Ovechkin may have signed a deal to play for the KHL’s Dynamo Moscow during the lockout, but that hasn’t prevented the star winger from continuing to voice his concerns about the NHL labor negotiations.

On Wednesday, Ovechkin spoke with a Russian news agency about his new contract and said he would consider staying in his home country full time if player salaries are cut dramatically in the next collective bargaining agreement.

Thanks to Slava Malamud of Sport-Express for translating Ovechkin’s full quote, which came from Russian news agency RIA Novosti and was initially published on Sporbox.ru.

“I knew that Dynamo was interested in me, as my Russia-based representative had immediately told me that,” Ovechkin said, as translated by Malamud. “But we had already promised CSKA to only negotiate with them. But then, there was a small snag. We asked [CSKA] whether we can start negotiating with someone else. In the end, we started making contact with Dynamo and reached an agreement.

“As to the future, it will depend on what kind of conditions there will be in the NHL with the new CBA,” Ovechkin said. “If our contracts get slashed, I will have to think whether to return there or not. I won’t rule out staying in the KHL, even past this season.”

Keep in mind that this may all be posturing on Ovechkin’s part, given the state of the NHL’s labor talks. But at the same time, he hasn’t shied away from strong statements about the negotiations and this isn’t the first time he’s floated the possibility of players staying overseas if the NHL cuts player salaries.

Ovechkin, like all NHLers who sign overseas during the lockout, has an out clause in his contract that allows them to return to North America whenever the NHL season starts up again.

If Ovechkin were to stay in Russia whenever the NHL resumes, he would be in violation of his contract with the Capitals, which runs through the 2020-21 season. The breach of contract would also go against the agreement between the NHL and KHL about honoring each other’s player contracts, would bring sanctions from the IIHF and likely lead to the NHL saying its players can’t participate in the Olympics.

That should give you an idea of the can of worms that would open up if players were to violate their NHL contracts. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but it would certainly be a dramatic course of action.

[Godfather]

They can keep him, Radulov and Semin for all I care :lol:

I'd love to know how much some KHL contracts are for.

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm waiting for the owners to start staking out the beer leagues for talent. Maybe we'll see RC getting scored on on live tv.

[samarchepas]

They can keep him, Radulov and Semin for all I care :lol:

I'd love to know how much some KHL contracts are for.

Normally I would agree with you...but Ovechkin saying this *might* put some pressure on the owners, which is good (Not talking sides here, the faster it's done, the better and one side will have to give in)
Ovechkin is THE big name in Washington (He signed for around 6M$ TAX FREE in the KHL) Again, if the Russians go to the KHL and stay there, the NHL loses some serious money. (And money is the ENTIRE reason why there is a lock-out)

[Richard Cranium]

I'm waiting for the owners to start staking out the beer leagues for talent. Maybe we'll see RC getting scored on on live tv.

And you would see plenty of pretty much everybody scoring on me.

I have a quite few goalie 'friends' around North America that are in fact playing with the big boys now.. They big boys rent ice themselves and fill in with some of the decent local talent as the need arises.

I was good enough during 2004 lockout to scrimmage with the remaining Yotes. It was a really cool gig, had my equipment dried and cared for daily until the team equipment managers got busted for 'crossing the picket line'..

I'm fat and horrible now so aint none O dat gonna happen this time around..:mrgreen:


btw, I read about the guys going over to the KHL and other leagues having to insure their NHL contract, something like 20k per million of salary.

[Godfather]

Normally I would agree with you...but Ovechkin saying this *might* put some pressure on the owners, which is good (Not talking sides here, the faster it's done, the better and one side will have to give in)
Ovechkin is THE big name in Washington (He signed for around 6M$ TAX FREE in the KHL) Again, if the Russians go to the KHL and stay there, the NHL loses some serious money. (And money is the ENTIRE reason why there is a lock-out)

I don't fucking care about their income now that it's in the multi-billions :lol:

[samarchepas]

I don't fucking care about their income now that it's in the multi-billions :lol:

If I was the Kings owner I'd be "royally" pissed right now :lol:
When you win the cup you want to start ASAP to be sure that you don't lose your fans (Here, in Canada, people will be back at the game as soon as the lock-out is over...can't say the same for some teams South of the border)
According to RDS (French TSN) The owners are not as unified as Bettman wants us to believe (That's why I used the Kings example, the owner ain't happy at all about all this and wants to start ASAP)
Teams are losing money...Bettman ain't, he still get his 8 Millions a year (That's more than Gomez! :lol: )
BTW, as you probably know, the owners can't complain publicly about anything...or they get a "substantial" fine :lol:
(I'd probably do it anyway...who cares about a fine if you have billions? :lol: )

[Godfather]

Totally agree on the Kings. Couldn't be much worse for a growing franchise to be locked out, those fans were just getting energized by a championship and a bright future. Now they'll just go back to football and basketball in LA. Same thing happened in Tampa Bay after the last lockout. Not only did the fans not return with much gusto, but the team was just a shadow of what is look like it was becoming.

I'd die to know how owners felt right now too, hadn't heard those rumors about disunity yet. Right up until lockout day, many were signing big fat cheques and handing out long contracts. I'd be curious to know which owners would be happy to just renew the old CBA

I think Bettman said he was giving up his salary during the lockout though :-k

[samarchepas]

Totally agree on the Kings. Couldn't be much worse for a growing franchise to be locked out, those fans were just getting energized by a championship and a bright future. Now they'll just go back to football and basketball in LA. Same thing happened in Tampa Bay after the last lockout. Not only did the fans not return with much gusto, but the team was just a shadow of what is look like it was becoming.

I'd die to know how owners felt right now too, hadn't heard those rumors about disunity yet. Right up until lockout day, many were signing big fat cheques and handing out long contracts. I'd be curious to know which owners would be happy to just renew the old CBA

I think Bettman said he was giving up his salary during the lockout though :-k

He is not getting paid when he is actually doing something? :rofl: (He gets 8M$ for what? getting booed when giving the cup? :lol: )
He negotiates a lot for Phoenix lately...but it's not really a good example, it is? :mrgreen:

[Richard Cranium]

The National Hockey League fined the Detroit Red Wings an undisclosed amount on Saturday in the wake of an article published earlier in the week which included critical comments about commissioner Gary Bettman.

The comments, made by Red Wings senior vice president Jim Devellano, were published in Island Sports News on Thursday. According to TSN of Canada, the fine is approximately $250,000.

"The Detroit Red Wings' organization and the League agree that the comments made by Mr. Devellano are neither appropriate, nor authorized, nor permissible under the League's By-Laws," said NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly. "Such comments are neither constructive nor helpful to the negotiations."

Devellano, 69, served as general manager of the Red Wings from 1982-90 and 1994-97, remaining in the club's front office since then. Prior to that, the Toronto native served as director of scouting and assistant GM for the New York Islanders, helping mold the dynasty which won four consecutive Stanley Cups from 1980-83.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/09/22/nhl-fines-red-wings-for-article-comments/#ixzz27DlDRzvL

[samarchepas]

250K$? OUCH! :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Report: Winter Classic could be canceled by November
By The Sports Xchange | The SportsXchange


The Winter Classic scheduled between the Maple Leafs and Red Wings on New Year's Day could be canceled by November barring a settlement in the NHL's lockout, according to a report by The Toronto Star.

"Gary (Bettman) told (the board of governors) he was going to cancel the Winter Classic in November because he didn't want the players to use the game as leverage," a source told the paper, referring to the NHL Commissioner.

The event is scheduled to take place at the University of Michigan, where a crowd of around 100,000 fans is expected.

"It's a scare tactic," a union source told The Star. "It just proves the NHL has no intention of negotiating any time soon."

The Detroit Red Wings are still planning on playing the game for now.

"We're going forward with (the Winter Classic) at this point in time," Red Wings senior vice-president Jimmy Devellano told the paper. "It's way too early to start to speculate. It's at least a month too early to worry about it."

The NHL and the players union have no talks on a new collective bargaining agreement planned.

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm sorry, but what's the NHL?

:idk:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

It's the No Hockey League

[samarchepas]

Or the "National Hockey Lock-out " :lol:

[Godfather]

:lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRQWP8XIjTE&hd=1

:cheers:

[DemonGeminiX]

I guess they haven't played a game yet since they all still have all of their teeth.

[Godfather]

There would be a split squad game tonight, Canucks vs. Calgary :( Gypped out of two games tonight.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

NHL cancels the rest of preseason games
By IRA PODELL (AP Sports Writer) | The Associated Press


NEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL canceled the rest of the preseason Thursday, just a day before negotiations were set to resume in an effort to end the lockout.

The league announced its second cancellation of preseason games in a two-sentence statement. NHL owners locked out players Sept. 16 when the collective bargaining agreement expired.

The NHL had already called off all the exhibition games scheduled in September. The regular season is supposed to begin Oct. 11.

The two sides have scheduled talks on Friday in New York, although they are on secondary economic issues as opposed to the core of the dispute, which is how to split more than $3 billion in annual revenue.

''I'll reserve judgment on my sense of 'optimism' (or not) until we see how our meetings unfold,'' NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said in an email to The Associated Press. ''Ultimately, we have to meet and talk to make a deal. But until we make progress and see some compromise from the Union of their economic position, we won't be going anywhere fast.

''We will see.''

The NHL and the union last met for formal negotiations Sept. 12, three days before the labor pact that ended the previous lockout - back in 2005 - ran out.

Now there is at least a glimmer of optimism as talks are expected to last through the weekend. If a deal isn't reached soon, regular-season games will be the next thing to be called off, and players will begin to miss paychecks.

In the most recent round of talks, both sides exchanged proposals on the core economic issues. The NHL made the last offer that day and said it has been waiting for the NHLPA to make a counteroffer.

''Obviously, we've got to talk before you can get a deal, so I think it's important to get the talks going again,'' Daly said this week. ''But you also have to have something to say. I think it's fair to say we feel like we need to hear from the players' association in a meaningful way because I don't think that they've really moved off their initial proposal, which was made more than a month ago now.''

As part of their decision to resume talks, the sides agreed to revisit the secondary issues that will have to be ironed out in the new CBA. Those include, but aren't limited to, grievance procedures, travel, medical care, and pensions and benefits.

''We are pleased the league is willing to come back to the bargaining table, and we look forward to Friday's discussions,'' NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said on Tuesday, when the negotiations were scheduled.

[DemonGeminiX]

Seriously, all of this horseshit is enough to make me not want to watch pro hockey anymore.

[Godfather]

They were saying on sports radio yesterday that the next three days of negotiation will essentially make or break this reason and they'll start with the little stuff and worth their way up to the big points. Granted, sports radio guys are just trying to prevent dead air at this point up here but I'd love to think there is still hope for this season :(

It's really dark, rainy and depressing up here in December/January you know :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Greg Wyshynski | Puck Daddy


The NHL Players' Association and the NHL's braintrust spent the weekend dancing around the edges of the core economic issues in their collection bargaining, knowing full well that the music's going to stop soon.

Bill Daly, the NHL's deputy commissioner, says the union isn't prepared to schedule meetings specifically to talk about those issues, via NHL.com:


"What we're doing now and what we've done for the last two days, I don't think any of that is going to get a deal done but they are all necessarily elements of the deal," Daly said. "Again, I hate to keep saying it because I'm going to sound like a broken record, but we need some movement on the economic issues [from the Union]. We need some movement on the system issues. We need them to be scheduled as a subject of a meeting. Right now, the Union is not prepared to do that."

The NHLPA, meanwhile, wants to figure out how to "bridge the gap on the major issues" according to Donald Fehr, believing the players had made significant movement on their share of the revenue.

And thus, the stalemate continues. And thus, regular-season games will be cancelled this week, as Elliotte Friedman reported: "NHL teams preparing for regular-season cancellations this week. Expectations games will be erased in two-week 'blocks.'"

And thus, pessimism has spread throughout the hockey world, not only about the current negotiation but also for the fate of the season.

Josh Yohe of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review wrote on Sunday:


The league isn't going to budge. There will be an entire season lost before the NHL budges. We've seen it before and, scary as it might sound, we'll see it again if the NHLPA refuses to make concessions.

You can make the argument that this is unfair for the NHLPA. And perhaps it is.

But the reality remains, if we're going to see hockey this season, Donald Fehr and the players are going to have to take slightly rest revenue then they are currently demanding. History tells us the NHL simply won't budge. It's up to the NHLPA to do so, unless another season is to be lost.

The problem is, according to Adrian Dater, that the players see this thing as personal with Gary Bettman after the last lockout. Which is really bad news for the rest of us:


They aren't going to take much less than 57, and certainly nothing on the order of 47. They'll sit out the whole year if there is no alternative.

They'll let Bettman and his crew of 30 owners wrestle with all those empty dates and lost revenues from the playoffs and Winter Classic. Half the players will make some cash in Europe, and the rest of the rank-and-file will take about $10-15K a month in NHLPA war chest money. They'll get by on that for a year anyway.

It all comes down to this simple truth, to the players: no way in hell is the short, old guy with the New York accent who never played the game going to push them around this time. They have their rallying cry this time, and his name is Gary Bettman, and anything short of total victory over this man won't be acceptable to the rank-and-file of the NHL players union this time around.

(An aside: The players might see Bettman as the "New York accent" guy who "never played the game", which would be very 1995 of them. But the bottom line is that for all the loathing of Bettman, for all the anger towards him and resentment of him … after 20 years, are we really going to claim the guy doesn't have an affinity for hockey?)

(And yes, it does make me want to gargle with turpentine having written that.)

So that's where we are: Pessimismville. Glumburgh. The Negative Zone. A stalemate whose end is nowhere in sight.

[Godfather]

:(

Didn't know this one I heard on the radio... apparently even if there are many owners who want to sign a deal and just get going, under the 'constitution' that Bettman lawyered for himself years back, he can veto a vote with as few as 9/30 owners backing him :lol:

[samarchepas]

:(

Didn't know this one I heard on the radio... apparently even if there are many owners who want to sign a deal and just get going, under the 'constitution' that Bettman lawyered for himself years back, he can veto a vote with as few as 9/30 owners backing him :lol:

I could not believe that someone would allow such a thing...and apparently I was right (kinda)...it's not 9/30 but 8/30...even worse! :lol:
no wonder he survived 3 lock-outs :(
(So 8/30 and him can decide for the rest of the owners...WTF?!? )

[Godfather]

And in actuality then it's even 7/30 because he owns one of the teams too :lol:

[samarchepas]

And in actuality then it's even 7/30 because he owns one of the teams too :lol:

I forgot about the whole Phoenix thing :lol: (As far as I know he doesn't count for Phoenix...The team is owned by the NHL, not by him.)
So technically it's 8/29...but with this league, you never know :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I like how everyone is trying to paint the owners as the bad guys here when it's the players that think they DESERVE 57% of the revenue generated by the NHL. Last time I looked, the NHL and all the clubs that are in the league are private businesses. These players should go out and get a real job and then march into their boss's office and demand that he open the books so they can see what the money looks like and then threaten to go on strike unless the boss pays them 57% of company revenue.

:roll:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

ESPN.com news services


The National Hockey League canceled two weeks' worth of regular-season games Thursday as the lockout dragged into its 18th day with no new labor talks scheduled.

The announcement was made in a two-paragraph statement from the NHL. It isn't clear if those games will be made up, allowing for a complete 82-game regular season, if a deal can be struck soon with the locked-out players.

Unable to work out how to split $3 billion in hockey-related revenues with the Players' Association, the NHL wiped out 82 games from Oct. 11 through Oct. 24 -- beginning with four next Thursday, which would have been the league's opening night.

"The decision to cancel the first two weeks of the NHL season is the unilateral choice of the NHL owners," NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr said in a statement. "If the owners truly cared about the game and the fans, they would lift the lockout and allow the season to begin on time while negotiations continue."

"A lockout should be the last resort in bargaining, not the strategy of first resort," he added. "For nearly 20 years, the owners have elected to lock out the players in an effort to secure massive concessions. Nevertheless, the players remain committed to playing hockey while the parties work to reach a deal that is fair for both sides. We hope we will soon have a willing negotiating partner."

The NHL said it would issue a statement later Thursday.

Although there have been negotiations between the league and players in recent days -- unlike the 2004-05 lockout that forced the cancellation of the entire season -- the two sides haven't gotten any closer to a deal on core economic issues.

"Obviously, (cancellations) might have been expected but it's also disappointing because we set out to negotiate," New York Rangers goalie Martin Biron said in a telephone interview. "We wanted to get a deal and wanted to avoid a work stoppage or any cancellations.

"We're still working hard to find a solution and find a way to get the core economic stuff figured out with the league and getting a deal that is fair for everybody and lasts."

Deputy commissioner Bill Daly wouldn't go so far as to say that these 82 games could or would be rescheduled if a new agreement was reached in a timely fashion.

"Certainly fair to say that if we reach a deal, we will be looking to reconfigure (the) schedule in a way that would maximize (the) season consistent with health and safety concerns for the players," Daly told ESPN.com via email Thursday afternoon.

In the previous lockout, the NHL and the union didn't get together between early September and early December.

Back then, the key words in the negotiations were salary cap, linkage and cost certainty. Commissioner Gary Bettman and the owners were committed to getting a deal that linked team costs to revenues, so each club would know exactly how much it had to spend on payroll and what number it couldn't exceed.

Thus, a salary cap was born for the first time in NHL history. The league produced record revenue during the seven years of that deal, which turned out much better for the players than expected.

There are no major philosophical issues this time as there were with the salary-cap fight, but the sides are far apart in financial figures. Players received 57 percent of hockey-related revenue in the deal that expired Sept. 15, and the NHL wants to bring that number below 50 percent -- perhaps as low as 47 percent.

The Players' Association, led by Fehr -- the former baseball union chief -- has rejected that idea.

"The leadership that we have with Don and his team is really trying to look at the big picture and not just a number," Biron said. "We understand that there is some tweaking and some things that have to be fixed in our proposal, but it seems that the owners are on a one-way mission to cut salaries."

The NHL claims the union hasn't done near enough to try to get closer to the league's proposal and appears willing to wait for the NHLPA to come around.

Daly said the league already had lost $100 million in revenues from canceled preseason games. The 82 canceled games will cost NHL players approximately $120 million in total salary, according to TSN.

During the last lockout, Bettman followed through on his vow to cancel the season if a deal wasn't reached by a February deadline. A new collective bargaining agreement wasn't completed until July, long after major damage had been done. It marked the first time a North American professional sport lost an entire season to a labor dispute.

In 2004, Daly announced Sept. 29 that there wouldn't be any hockey in October. New proposals and negotiations in December and January did little to push the sides toward a settlement, and Bettman announced Feb. 16 that the season had been lost. It marked the first time since a flu epidemic in 1919 that the Stanley Cup wasn't awarded.

[DemonGeminiX]

Report: NHL Could Resort to Replacement Players in Attempt to Break Up Players Union

by Sean Desmond on Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:34AM

With the NHL cancelling games for most of the month of October, more cancellations are likely on the horizon. However, the season may not be completely lost.

According to former Toronto Maple Leafs assistant general manager Bill Watters, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman would consider using replacement players in an attempt to break up the NHLPA union.

This tactic has been used before in locked out professional sports. In 1987 the NFL used replacement players for three weeks to force the hand of their striking players, and as a result, was able to end the work stoppage. It was also speculated in the 2004-05 NHL labor dispute that the league would resort to replacement players, but the trigger was never pulled.

Though most young players would not consider crossing the picket line, the owners and executives could plausibly put rosters together for all 30 teams. Whether or not bringing in replacement players happens, the threat of it could be enough to force the NHLPA’s hand in taking a smaller revenue share.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nhl/article_external/report_nhl_could_resort_to_replacement_players_in_ attempt_to_break_up_players_union/11889436

[Godfather]

This guy responds to that and I think he's probably right

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48604-Are-replacement-players-a-viable-option.html

I had an interesting conversation with an audio tech guy while doing a TV interview last month. Even though he was a union worker, he didn’t understand why the NHL wouldn’t simply bring in scab players during the then-impending lockout. His logic was that fans just want to watch hockey and that for the amount of money the pros get paid, replacement players would line up.

I had to set him straight (in the nicest way possible).

As I argued, people watch the NHL because it features the best players in the world. And if you want to test that idea, simply look at teams at the bottom of the standings and correlate the attendance.

There are some bulletproof franchises – Toronto and Montreal, for example, were at the bottom of the standings and the top of the attendance board last season – but both those teams had hope before the 2011-12 campaign began. Montreal was bushwhacked by the loss of Andrei Markov, while Toronto’s goaltending woes spun a promising season (and big years from Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul) into the ground.

Contrast that with two other venerable franchises that suffered at the gate only a few years ago: St. Louis and Chicago. In 2005-06, the Blues finished 27th in NHL attendance with 14,213 folks per game. The product that year was the worst team in the West, led by 37-year-old Scott Young’s 49 points in 79 games. The Hawks, meanwhile, edged out the Blues to take 14th place, driven by the offensive stylings of Kyle Calder and Mark Bell – neither of whom hit the 60-point mark. Still in the Bill Wirtz era, 13,318 Chicago fans would brave the horror show every game, good for 29th in league attendance.

What’s my point here? The product usually matters. No one begrudges Columbus fans for losing the faith in recent years when the team hasn’t even sniffed the playoffs since that magical Ken Hitchcock/Steve Mason effort in 2008-09. And the double-shot of no playoffs and a decrepit building shields Islanders faithful from any outside scorn (unless you’re a Rangers fan, in which case the scorn is implied). The players who regularly skate for the Jackets and Isles are among the 730 best in the world, even if only one or two are in the top 100 right now (John Tavares the obvious one).

As I said to the union tech, those teams have a hard enough time getting people to watch now; you want to bring in the next 730 best and test their patience?

And let’s face it: replacements wouldn’t even be the next 730. Most of those ranks are in the American League, Russia, Sweden, Finland, major junior and the NCAA. You’re looking at players who assume they will never get a shot at the NHL again.

The cliché about the logo on the front of the sweater being more important than the name on the back only goes so far, particularly since fan sentiment still seems to be largely anti-owner right now.

Simply put, this is an arrow the NHL cannot pull from its quiver in negotiations. You can gripe about ticket prices to games, but when Pavel Datsyuk destroys a goalie in the shootout or Patrick Kane dangles a defender out of his jock strap, the price of admission is the last thing on your mind. Montreal fans can boo lustily when Boston’s Milan Lucic drops the gloves with one of their boys, but it just wouldn’t be the same if it was two journeyman goons throwing down, even in those vaunted sweaters.

So with all due respect to the union tech at the TV station, the answer is no, you can’t just replace NHL players.

[Godfather]

How god damn long can it take to just agree on 50%. I'll concede to Lance that I'm too biased towards the players, but whatever, who in their right mind would take a cut from 75% to 57% to 46% in 8 years time - when they know that half their union is irreplaceable...

In the end I should make it clear I might favor one, but truly hate both sides because I think this should still be an easy fix :lol:

[samarchepas]

How god damn long can it take to just agree on 50%. I'll concede to Lance that I'm too biased towards the players, but whatever, who in their right mind would take a cut from 75% to 57% to 46% in 8 years time - when they know that half their union is irreplaceable...

In the end I should make it clear I might favor one, but truly hate both sides because I think this should still be an easy fix :lol:

Remember what you said earlier? If Bettman doesn't like a proposal the NHLPA makes...all he needs is 8 owners to follow him= no deal (I believe that it is 50%+1 for the players) What it SHOULD be is 16 (More than half) BTW its sadly NEVER an easy fix when BILLIONS are involved :lol:

[RBP]

As an emotionally unattached observer... fuck 'em. Hire replacements and force their hand.

[samarchepas]

As an emotionally unattached observer... fuck 'em. Hire replacements and force their hand.

Replacement...last time I heard that word...didn't go so well did it? :lol:
I'd have 0 interest in seeing some ECHL level hockey honestly (We got CHL/AHL hockey on TV here)
BTW I don't see how replacements would even change anything...cancelling games or getting replacements is just same thing really for anyone in the NHLPA.

[RBP]

Replacement...last time I heard that word...didn't go so well did it? :lol:
I'd have 0 interest in seeing some ECHL level hockey honestly (We got CHL/AHL hockey on TV here)
BTW I don't see how replacements would even change anything...cancelling games or getting replacements is just same thing really for anyone in the NHLPA.

I don't think so... cheaper seats, same concession sales... makes a lot more money than an empty arena. You'd have to have a fan boycott in support of the players, and frankly, we don't have a lot of sympathy for bitchy millionaires.

[samarchepas]

I don't think so... cheaper seats, same concession sales... makes a lot more money than an empty arena. You'd have to have a fan boycott in support of the players, and frankly, we don't have a lot of sympathy for bitchy millionaires.

Bitchy millionaires vs bitchy billionaires ;) Bettman is getting 8 Millions a year.
The owners made the lock-out you know...the NHLPA asked to the NHL if they wanted to get the season going and get an arrangement
during the season...They said no. In Montreal, fans will probably still go at the game with the replacements if it happen...can't say the same for everywhere (Good luck getting people to the games in Anaheim without their stars...5th worst attendance in the league last year with Ryan,Selanne,Getzlaf, Perry...)
Just lock Bettman and Fehr in a room...no one gets out before they have the new CBA signed! :lol:

[Godfather]

I don't think so... cheaper seats, same concession sales... makes a lot more money than an empty arena. You'd have to have a fan boycott in support of the players, and frankly, we don't have a lot of sympathy for bitchy millionaires.
This is an interesting article, not that you have to agree.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/nhl-owners-would-do-well-to-listen-to-players/article4587474/

Owner's can't fill seats in a dozen stadiums even with the likes of Doan, Nash and Perry out there. No chance they're getting more than 5,000 fans in the door with a bunch of scabs.

Maybe money wouldn't be such a sticking point if the league would just cut the fat... Why do the Coyotes still exist. What a mess the NHL is right now. Even fans can't agree on who they hate more :lol:

This is like Panda Watch from Anchorman...

[DemonGeminiX]

You guys might be right in Canada, but down here, RBP's right. The fans who love the game here will just want to see the game. They won't give a shit who's wearing the jerseys, as it's half of the fault of the guys in the jerseys anyway. It was the same thing with the NFL strike back in the 80s... people just wanted to watch the game and they were willing to pay to see the scabs play, even if they weren't the best in the world. That's what forced the NFL players to cross the line, the knowledge that they could be replaced and the fans would still pay to watch. And that included some legends like Joe Montana, John Elway... etc.

Mark my words, boys. If scabs go to the NHL, people who genuinely love the NHL will pay to watch the scabs play.

[Richard Cranium]

Ima be famous.. :dance:

[Godfather]

You guys might be right in Canada, but down here, RBP's right. The fans who love the game here will just want to see the game. They won't give a shit who's wearing the jerseys, as it's half of the fault of the guys in the jerseys anyway. It was the same thing with the NFL strike back in the 80s... people just wanted to watch the game and they were willing to pay to see the scabs play, even if they weren't the best in the world. That's what forced the NFL players to cross the line, the knowledge that they could be replaced and the fans would still pay to watch. And that included some legends like Joe Montana, John Elway... etc.

Mark my words, boys. If scabs go to the NHL, people who genuinely love the NHL will pay to watch the scabs play.

Hell you're right, I'd watch any game where guys are wearing NHL jerseys at this point :P

Still, the scabs would be just terrible :lol: ... this wouldn't just be the next 700 best players in the world (hell the bottom 100 of the NHL are pretty bad). Players in the KHL, Elite, AHL or even decent ECHL'ers wouldn't show up, they'd have to have settle on a month or two in the NHL being the best their career could have. Today's top pro athletes aren't the NFL'ers of 1987. No more Donal Fuhr and the Oilers doing cocaine after the game. The insane work ethic, diet and training they pour into themselves to be physically and mentally the best is unbelievable. It takes a rare bread to make the show, and whoever tries to fill those boots is going to be visibly much much worse.

[Godfather]

I dono about Sam but I've been loving the WHL/CHL hockey. These kids are hit and miss from one night to the next but they have a lot of heart and holy shit are the hits huge :lol:

[samarchepas]

I dono about Sam but I've been loving the WHL/CHL hockey. These kids are hit and miss from one night to the next but they have a lot of heart and holy shit are the hits huge :lol:

Same here :lol: (QMJHL...just wish they would call it the East Hockey League instead because they have teams in the New Brunswick)
But what I'm REALLY looking for right now is the AHL (Starting on October 20th, we get games from the Hamilton Bulldogs, the Habs farm team) And to go back to the whole "replacements" thing...I will probably skip that if it happens (Beer league on Tv? no thanks :lol: )

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Nicholas J. Cotsonika - Yahoo! Sports


ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Imagine the Big Four meeting Friday in Toronto -- NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and his deputy, Bill Daly; NHL Players' Association executive director Don Fehr and his brother, Steve Fehr.

Now imagine a popsicle sitting in the center of the table. The Big Four's job is to divide it.

Because the popsicle is already out of the freezer, it is melting steadily, drip by drip, day by day. The faster the Big Four reach an agreement, the more they will have to divide. The longer they take, the less will be left. Eventually, there comes a point where the popsicle won't be a popsicle anymore -- just a pool of goo, a sticky mess.

The NHL lockout is a textbook bargaining dilemma. Literally. The popsicle metaphor has been used in college textbooks like the one written by Rodney Fort, a professor of sports management at the University of Michigan.

"How long can the owners wait?" Fort said. "How long can the players wait?"

Fort's conclusion: not long.

And not because of the big game at the Big House across campus from his office -- the Winter Classic outdoor showcase, which is supposed to draw a record crowd of 110,000-plus to Michigan Stadium to watch the Detroit Red Wings host the Toronto Maple Leafs on New Year's Day. This is about more than one game, no matter how big.

We've looked at this before. But in the wake of Thursday's cancellation of the first two weeks of the regular-season schedule, let's do it again from another perspective. Let's ignore the emotion and spin, and let's look at the logic: Fort thinks both the owners and the players have too much to lose -- not just the players -- and the Big Four are too experienced and intelligent to let the popsicle melt too much.

Yes, Bettman and Daly canceled an entire season in 2004-05, just as the Fehrs wiped out a World Series in 1994 with the Major League Baseball Players Association. But you have to examine the facts at the time in those industries, not just glance at the names involved,and this time the facts suggest to Fort a solution will come sooner rather than later.

"I still have this fundamental, analytical belief that we could hear them just reach an agreement any day," Fort said with a laugh. "I really have a hard time believing they're actually that very far apart. … I won't be at all surprised [if they reach an agreement] after the weekend, or next weekend."

Now, Fort means an agreement in principle on the core issues, not a sewn-up CBA, and he allows this could continue as an illogical game of chicken. But he said that a few hours before the news broke of the Big Four's unexpected meeting Friday. And as we've said from the beginning, there doesn't need to be a long lockout.

Fort's outside, objective analysis bolsters that case. It is what has made this so infuriating so far; it is what could ultimately end it.

"This one," Fort said, "is so dramatically different from the last."

This is not 2004-05. Back then, it was simply not in the owners' economic interest to play. It was easy for them to shut down the league. "They actually lost less money than if they had run it," Fort said. It was a battle over the very system -- the owners demanding a salary cap, the players refusing.

This time, the owners say they need relief from skyrocketing costs, and as many as 18 teams are losing money, according to Forbes magazine. But the fact remains that the NHL has enjoyed seven years of record revenues, and both sides are working within the salary cap system.

The players are not willing to take the immediate pay cut the owners are demanding -- the major sticking point, at the moment -- but they are willing to take less in the future. They have acknowledged that there are financial issues in some markets, and they have made major concessions worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The more the game grows, the more the owners will benefit.

We have focused more on the leverage the owners have via the lockout. By one estimate based on the owners' last proposal, if the players miss just eight games, they will be taking the pay cut they are refusing to take. Bettman has said: "Even a brief lockout will cost more in terms of lost salary and wages than what we're proposing."

But while the players can't win, in a sense, they have some leverage in terms of getting a deal done. The players' concessions, in a way, add to the pressure on the owners.

"The owners actually have a prize," Fort said. "It might not be exactly the prize they want, but there is a prize. The players have offered them something, and they're paying a price while they wait.

"The basics of it are pretty straightforward: The NHL has to weigh what they demand versus what they're offered."

Ideally,you would split the popsicle 50-50 before even taking it out of the freezer. Everyone knows what is fair on a basic level, and letting the thing melt even a little just isn't worth the fight.

Obviously, this situation isn't that simple. The owners and players entered with different bargaining positions (not to mention a lot of baggage), and they have different points of diminishing returns. The key is determining what those points are.

"Somewhere out there is the right time for everybody to just go, 'This isn't worth it to us anymore,' " Fort said. "I think what is really interesting here is that certainly both sides know this, and certainly Mr. Fehr knows this."

Is this why the NHLPA has been insisting on guaranteed money -- 2 percent, 4 percent and 6 percent raises over the next three years, compounded -- instead of negotiating on a percentage basis? Is this partly a lockout deterrent? If the owners must depend on growth to realize their gains from the offer, why would they screw up that growth?

"I suspect the way [the players have] structured their offer into the future, they've driven the owners as close as they possibly can to being indifferent about the owner position and the player position," Fort said.

"They're not, but Fehr has done his best to make sure it's as close as it could possibly be, so the amount of time that goes by before they both finally just say, 'Look, let's call it a day,' is going to be as short as possible."

The odds are increasing that this could go long. The rhetoric has sharpened, and trenches have deepened.

This could unravel the wrong way.

"We all know what happens when you play games of chicken," Fort said. "We've now entered into a realm where, whether it's small or large, there is some probability that through no real intent of either side you get to the end. … Sometimes they lead to a tragic consequence."

But the odds still favor a season, some kind of season. That the Big Four met quietly Friday -- with no public posturing -- was a good sign. If there is going to be progress, it's probably going to start there. If they can figure out a way to let the players keep what they have now but split the popsicle about 50-50 in the future, it should lead to a deal.

They should have done it already. They didn't. But at least from a detached, analytical perspective, they should before it's really too late.

"Because they now know that everybody's losing money when the season doesn't go on, they're actually very close together," Fort said. "I don't think they're that far apart. I really don't. I mean, I can't do that calculation, but my fundamental belief in the quality of the minds that are at the NHL office and with the players … the chance that they're screwing up fundamentally in how to divvy up this pie seems farfetched to me."

We'll see. For now, the popsicle is still melting, and the heat is on.

[Godfather]

Kinda optimistic eh :-k

[samarchepas]

What REALLY pisses me off here...Bettman (Don't know for Fehr, should be around the same thing)...is getting 8M$ a year to negotiate contracts BUT no talks until Wednesday...That mess won't fix itself!! Normally when you don't do what you are supposed to do at a job...you get fired. (Still hoping it gets fixed by December/January)

[Godfather]

You guys know what the agenda was for NHL - NHLPA talks today!?

....improving ice conditions. :doh:

[RBP]

fuck em

[Teh One Who Knocks]

You guys know what the agenda was for NHL - NHLPA talks today!?

....improving ice conditions. :doh:

You can't play ice hockey without ice :nono:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By Greg Wyshynski | Puck Daddy


http://i.imgur.com/qIZvu.jpg

Over the last several months, the NHL players and their proxies (agents, media) have railed against the League for silencing its owners during the lockout.

The prevailing wisdom: That sans muzzle (i.e. the threat of a Devellano-esque fine), a group of maverick owners opposed to the work stoppage would break ranks and exert public pressure on Gary Bettman (i.e. the man they pay to stop work) to end the lockout.

The latest example from these protectors of the first amendment: Dan Boyle of the San Jose Sharks. As he told CSN Bay Area:


"I think when players make comments, sometimes it's directed towards 30 owners, but I think a lot of us feel that it's not across the board. It's a certain group of teams that are controlling 30 others," Boyle said.

"It doesn't make any sense to me that eight teams can control the fate of 22 other ones."

Bruce Garrioch of the Ottawa Sun carried the meme through to his Sunday column:


The owners got "cost-certainty" through a cap the last time we were in this situation. It wouldn't seem it is worth losing a season this time, since the framework is there to put a deal in place.

The insider with knowledge of the bargaining suggested Bettman has the support from the board of governors and those who don't like the idea of the lockout are sitting silent to see if the NHL can get the union to bend.

"The dissenters are being quiet and waiting to see how far (Bettman) can (make) Fehr go," he said. The dissenters have no choice. Speaking out could mean a fine of up to $1 million and a loss of draft choices.

There are a few reasons why the players and their agents are hung up on the owner solidarity thing, which smacks of desperation and denial of reality.

Fear Of Their Own Solidarity

After the NHLPA cracked like a wine glass on a brick wall back in 2005, the players have gone out of their way to declare solidarity in this round of CBA talks. It was one of the primary motivations for bringing Donald Fehr in to lead the union, right behind his ability to make Gary Bettman seem like the second-smartest man in the room.

And so it is that the NHLPA members tweet the same messages and fly off to Europe en masse and start predicting they'll go the distance on the lockout and take their little jabs at Bettman. But the underlying truth of it all is that there's a much better chance that 740 members of the NHLPA — of different economic and experience standings — will fracture well before 30 owners will.

As Chris Botta tweeted:

http://i.imgur.com/Tb7j1.jpg

It's a race to the breaking point, and the players know that their opponents have an advantage in their numbers and in Bettman being the one holding the leash on his owners.

Preconceptions of Motivation

As Reusch wrote recently, there's every reason to believe that Geoff Molson doesn't want the Montreal Canadiens locked out. The same thing goes for other teams that print their own money (the New York Rangers) or that would like to capitalize on the NHL's surging popularity (the Los Angeles Kings).

The tricky part is that every owner has dueling motivations in this negotiation.

Yes, it's obvious that a team like the Nashville Predators would like to get back on the ice and continue building momentum in their market. It's also obvious they'd benefit from reduced player costs and stronger revenue sharing, which will only arrive through the lockout.

Yes, it's easy to assume an owner like Terry Pegula that's worked the current system, and isn't exactly hurting for money, would rather his Buffalo Sabres challenge for the Stanley Cup than have them locked out. Yet if the Sabres, say, ever started their own local sports network, perhaps they'd like the financial solvency to cover losses. Or perhaps they don't really want to be the team that hands out a massive second contract like the one given to Tyler Myers when the franchise lost money in five of six NHL seasons between '05-'06 to '10-'11.

Same goes for every owner that makes a ton of money at the gate but sees it fly out the window to players making 57 percent of it; and every owner that's seen his ancillary costs rise as the players' share has grown.

Bottom line: While none of this is a reason to kill another season, let's not pretend that even the wealthiest and most altruistic among NHL owners isn't looking to knock down the players' share.

It's The Logo On The Front

Please recall Dan Boyle's words:


"It doesn't make any sense to me that eight teams can control the fate of 22 other ones."

It doesn't? Here, lemme help:

http://i.imgur.com/hy4or.jpg

These are the total appearances for NHL teams on the NBC/NBCSN schedule for 2012-13, which has pretty much gone the way of Crystal Pepsi and the PT Cruiser thanks to the schedule cancellation.

As you can see, there are 10 teams that are featured more than 10 times combined on the networks. For NBC, there only five teams featured three or more times: Jeremy Jacobs' Boston Bruins, Rocky Wirtz's Chicago Blackhawks, Mike Illitch's Detroit Red Wings, Ed Snider's Philadelphia Flyers and Mario Lemieux's Pittsburgh Penguins.

So yes, it makes sense that about eight teams can control the fate of 22 others because they're the only ones worth a damn from an American television perspective.

That $3.3 billion in revenue generated last year? You seriously don't believe that's the byproduct of having Original Six teams in four of the last five Cup Finals, along with the Penguins (twice) and the Flyers? Or Original Six teams and/or Sidney Crosby in every Winter Classic?

Again, the truth of matter: It's a team-driven league that has at most four players that actually drive gate — Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Steven Stamkos (potentially) and Jaromir Jagr (at least in the Dallas Stars' eyes). Otherwise, fans are paying and tuning in to see the logo on the front.

So it makes perfect sense that the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many in ownership, because in the end they're the ones carrying the torch for the League's popularity and sharing their wealth with the weaker franchises.

Which is why you and I have never been invited to sleep over the Lincoln bedroom, to draw a political parallel.

Finally …

Talk To Us When You Learn Your Owner's Name

Granted, there are 11 names on the Sharks' ownership board, but Boyle surely knows about Sharks Sports and Entertainment. They're the ones claiming a $15 million loss last season despite 41 sell outs. They're also the ones that sign Boyle's checks.

No one's expecting Boyle or his peers to trash their employers with the same vicious fervor as they would Bettman. But is it too much to ask for a guy like Boyle to name names? To tell us where he thinks his owners stand? To explain which teams he believes are all-in for a lockout and which ones are along for the ride?

In reality, it's the only way to really put the screws to the owners: To have their own players call them out to paying customers by name as the real enemy.

Think it'll happen? Of course not.

Otherwise, it's just hopeful speculation. That these owners aren't more concerned about a Canadian television windfall in a few years than they are about winning a Stanley Cup. That "man of the people" owners like Terry Pegula, Mario Lemieux and Ted Leonsis don't actually support Bettman in his work stoppage, when they have every motivation to guarantee profit and cut player costs.

Ask yourself this question: Is there a greater percentage of owners or players that want to get back on NHL ice tomorrow? Who cracks first?

[Godfather]

Interesting article

[samarchepas]

You guys know what the agenda was for NHL - NHLPA talks today!?

....improving ice conditions. :doh:
Until they talk about the financial part of the CBA...ain't going anywhere (I don't think that ice condition caused the lock-out, did it? :lol: )

[Godfather]

Thus my facepalm :lol: Fucking idiots might as just be sitting around talking about The Bachelor, they're so far off the important things...

[samarchepas]

Thus my facepalm :lol: Fucking idiots might as just be sitting around talking about The Bachelor, they're so far off the important things...

I start to remember why Bettman is the most hated sports league commissioner, his strategy, the way I see it: wait till the players are at their breaking point...the thing is, some fans are already at this point and won't be back to support their team.Third lock-out that he got into, he just thinks that the fans will be back no matter what. BTW no negotiations scheduled! (With 0 progress in the last session)

[Richard Cranium]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407490

The NHL put a new offer on the bargaining table for the NHL Players' Association on Tuesday morning, which includes a 50/50 split of hockey-related revenue across the board and contingent on an 82-game season beginning Nov. 2.

"We hope we've given our best shot," NHL commissioner Gary Bettman told reporters on Tuesday afternoon.

Bettman added that the offer calls for no salary rollback and the revised schedule - if implemented - would see one week of training camp and every team playing an extra regular season game every five weeks.

NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr said the offer - which is at least six years in length - is an "excellent start" and he would go over it with his membership in a 5pm et conference call.

Negotiations resumed Tuesday in Toronto in the NHL's labour dispute with the NHL Players Association - the first in five days following two days of meetings in New York last week. Key negotiators Bettman, Bill Daly and Donald and Steve Fehr were in attendance as both sides looked to start bridging the gap on core economic issues.

Both sides have communicated regularly since the lockout began on Sept. 15, but with little to no progress so far as the meetings have focused on non-core economic discussions.

Neither side had formally tabled an offer since Sept. 12.

[DemonGeminiX]

:yawn:

[Godfather]

New CBA offer looks great. 50/50, 5 year contracts, only 1 year longer to get to free agency, entry level contracts remain the same. Sounds good, let's fuggin' play.

Apparently it would still be an 82 game season, not condensed like the NBA did, just lasting into late June

[samarchepas]

New CBA offer looks great. 50/50, 5 year contracts, only 1 year longer to get to free agency, entry level contracts remain the same. Sounds good, let's fuggin' play.

Apparently it would still be an 82 game season, not condensed like the NBA did, just lasting into late June

Good for negociation yes, but it won't be the last offer done here (From what I see, the 50/50 ain't really a 50/50)
IF the league's growth is the same (or better) yes it is but if it not the case, it's far less.

[Godfather]

I think the bigger sticking point could be the 5 year contract, or more specifically roll backs but hopefully not. 5 years is still a long time in the world of sport.

If the NHLPA doesn't take this deal or something very close to it, they'll look greedy as fuck to the people who are still on their side/on the fence.

[samarchepas]

I think the bigger sticking point could be the 5 year contract, or more specifically roll backs but hopefully not. 5 years is still a long time in the world of sport.

If the NHLPA doesn't take this deal or something very close to it, they'll look greedy as fuck to the people who are still on their side/on the fence.
I'm telling you...this WON'T go as it is right now :lol: (Something similar, but not as it is right now)
It's a good thing to get negociations going though. I agree that shorter contracts= forces the player to work more for the next contract (No more "I don't care, I have a 15 years contract!") I want a CBA that the 2 sides like...or the same damn thing will start again in 6 years.

[Godfather]

Agreed... hopefully 50/50 is agreeable long term. It's seldom mentioned, but the NFL has one of the best revenue sharing systems going and it has taken the league a long way (and been a big factor in avoiding lockouts from what I've learned the last week or two).

[samarchepas]

Yup, the revenue sharing is a lot better in the NFL than the NHL...they will either have to change the way it is done or just get rid of the teams that ain't getting fans. (Phoenix for example, at least one team in Florida...etc) Again with the 50/50, the tricky part will be having both sides having the same definition of 50/50 :lol: (They had to discuss about ice condition last week, remember? :rofl: )

[Godfather]

I hope that aside side from the obvious signing of a new CBA, the league shrinks soon and a few teams are moved to Canada or northern US like Washington. It would make the CBA much less difficult for 'poor' and 'rich' owners to agree upon too.

[samarchepas]

I hope that aside side from the obvious signing of a new CBA, the league shrinks soon and a few teams are moved to Canada or northern US like Washington. It would make the CBA much less difficult for 'poor' and 'rich' owners to agree upon too.

Sadly, Bettman doesn't think that way :lol: He probably will look at an expansion instead (more money for the league in the short term)
They keep saying that the league is doing great but look at all the teams losing money in there...Canada and the northern US are making Bettman look good even with his big mistakes.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

If the NHLPA doesn't take this deal or something very close to it, they'll look greedy as fuck to the people who are still on their side/on the fence.


NEW YORK (AP) -- NHL labor negotiations will resume Thursday after the players' union reviewed management's proposal and saw it as only a small step forward to ending the monthlong lockout.

:|

[Godfather]

That blows.

A guy on the radio was saying the players are still pissed off, offended and unified by the NHL's first offer of 43% and will sit out for 3 months if it means getting 54%. :|

Idiots.

[samarchepas]

The way I see it...Two spoiled kids fighting for a toy...and there is nothing we can do about it! :lol:
(The NHLPA is expected to make an offer today)

[Godfather]

This local writer thinks the 5-year thing is meant by NHL to punish Owners with long term contracts on their teams (I guess they're not unified, big surprise). Interesting read. Sorry for the weird format.

Jason Botchford
The Province

There wasn’t panic or rage over at Rogers Arena with the CBA clause
that threatens to work like a punch to the Canucks salary cap gut.

There shouldn’t be. The so-called Roberto Luongo rule — or Ilya
Kovalchuk rule, take your pick — is just a proposal at this point. And
it’s one which, even if ratified, won’t start having an impact until
this next CBA expires.
But what a proposal. It works like a time machine in an attempt to
rewrite history. Remember the resolution the NHL reached over
long-term deals in the Kovalchuk case?
Settled, right? Old news, correct? Well, the league would like to
reopen the case.
The so-called back-diving deals, like the contracts signed by Luongo,
Kovalchuk, Marian Hossa, several in Philadelphia and two in Minnesota,
would get a significant, long-lasting wrinkle if Gary Bettman has his
way.
Essentially, in deals longer than five years, the average cap hit will
continue to count after the player retires for the length of the
contract. By the way, Luongo is 33, and has 10 years left on his deal.
The proposal even has this kicker: If the player is traded, his cap
hit when he retires will revert back to the original team that signed
him to the back-diving contract. (Enjoy the new acronym BDC).
So, the Canucks deal Luongo, he hangs them up to go play professional
poker, and it’s Vancouver which is on the hook for his $5.3 million
cap hit until 2022.
Some nice vindictive CBAing right there.
Is it excessively punitive against teams which signed deals
permissible under the old CBA? Of course. It punishes general managers
who played by the rules. For what?
It doesn’t do anything to limit back-diving deals moving forward
because under the latest proposal no contracts are permitted to be
longer than five years.
So, why go back? Better yet, who would come up with an idea like this?
For sure Bettman, who was furious when teams exploited the loophole.
But he wasn’t alone. This is his chance for payback.
Nearly half the league (14 teams) have players signed to deals that
are eight years or longer. Why would any of these teams risk the dead
cap space early retirements are going to create?
Take a look at Philadelphia, where it would rain down salary cap
hellsicles if Jeff Carter, Mike Richards and Ilya Bryzgazlov all
retired next season..
There was, however, one general manager who publicly ripped the
Kovalchuk deal, testified for the league at the arbitration hearing
and boasts about never signing a player to a contract longer than five
years.
That would be Brian Burke who, when interviewed by the Globe and Mail
on this topic a couple of years ago said:
“I don’t mind being on an island. I’ve done it consistently throughout
my career where I believe there’s a principle involved.”
What this won’t do is change the Canucks plans to trade Luongo. The
proposal has no impact on the dynamics of a trade. The Canucks would
take the salary cap hit when Luongo retires, whether it’s in
Vancouver, Chicago, Toronto, Florida or Edmonton.
You could argue this gives a little more incentive to the Canucks
arch-rivals who have been pursuing Luongo. They’d get the goalie and
get to watch the Canucks get screwed when he retires. Not a bad cherry
to put on the deal.
But Luongo isn’t going to retire anytime soon. He has six more years
where he gets $6.7 million per season. In the seventh, his salary is
$3.4 million. He’s likely to play all of those years.
The current NHL proposal is six years long with an option for a
seventh. That essentially moves the real debate on this issue to the
next CBA, because most of the players who signed BDC’s won’t retire
until the next CBA expires.
By then, you can bet GM Mike Gillis will be gone.
Still, it’s difficult seeing the players accepting it this time
around. Any dollar of dead cap space is a dollar not being spent on
players.
In the Philadelphia scenario, let’s say Richards moves on to be a
professional surfer, Carter leaves the NHL to travel South America and
the flakey Bryzgalov stays in Russia to play in the KHL. That’s $16.6
million in dead cap space the Flyers can’t spend. In a word: Phuck.
With nearly half the league having players signed to deals at least
eight years, that’s not an insignificant amount of potential dead cap
space sitting out there.

[samarchepas]

The NHL wants to punish their bosses? :wtf: (Bettman is playing with fire)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

The Associated Press


TORONTO (AP) -- NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman received three counterproposals from the players' association on Thursday and left the negotiating table ''thoroughly disappointed.''

No new talks have been scheduled, and the possibility of a full hockey regular season is quickly shrinking.

''This is not a good day,'' union executive director Donald Fehr said. ''It should have been.''

The players' association offered multiple options in response to the NHL's offer on Tuesday that called for an 82-game season and a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenues between owners and players.

Bettman said that proposal was the ''best that we could do'' and added that the two sides are still far apart.

''None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach 50-50, either at all or for some long period of time,'' Bettman said.

''It's clear we're not speaking the same language.''

Bettman said he was still hopeful the league can have a full season, but time is running out to make that happen.

''I am concerned based on the proposal that was made today that things are not progressing,'' he said. ''To the contrary, I view the proposal made by the players' association in many ways a step backward.''

Bettman said Tuesday that the sides would have to reach an agreement by Oct. 25 for a full season to be played.

''We came in here today with those proposals thinking that we could really make some progress,'' Pittsburgh Penguins star Sidney Crosby said. ''To hear those words (from Bettman) kind of shuts it down pretty quickly. In a nutshell it doesn't look good.''

Fehr said two of the union's proposals would have the players take a fixed amount of revenue, which would turn into an approximate 50-50 split over the term of the deal, provided league revenues continued to grow.

The third approach would be a 50-50 split, as long as the league honored all existing contracts at full value.

NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly disputed the union's assessment of that offer.

''The so called 50-50 deal, plus honoring current contracts proposed by the NHL Players' Association is being misrepresented,'' Daly said. ''It is not a 50-50 deal. It is most likely a 56- to 57-percent deal in Year One and never gets to 50 percent during the proposed five-year term of the agreement.

''The proposal contemplates paying the players approximately $650 million outside of the players' share. In effect, the union is proposing to change the accounting rules to be able to say '50-50,' when in reality it is not. The union told us that they had not yet 'run the numbers.' We did.''

Fehr said the players would sacrifice nearly $1.8 billion in revenue under the league's proposal. He added that concessions made by the players in the last round of bargaining have cost them $3.3 billion over the term of the last agreement.

The players received 57 percent of revenues in the collective bargaining agreement that expired last month.

NHL players showed up in force Thursday as the union made its various offers.

Among the 18 players at the talks were Crosby, Jarome Iginla, Jonathan Toews and Eric Staal. The scene looked similar to one in August when the union made its first proposal.

The lockout - the third of the Bettman era - began Sept. 16, and the league canceled regular-season games through Oct. 24. Bettman, in announcing the new proposal, called it ''a fair offer for a long-term deal'' and ''one that we hope gets a positive reaction.''

It didn't, and now the clock is an even bigger factor.

There is only one week to strike a deal for the season to start by Nov. 2, three weeks behind schedule. If those deadlines are met, teams would be able to hold makeshift training camps for one week, and then play one extra game every five weeks to make up for the lost time and complete a full slate.

''I don't know what the next step is,'' Bettman said. ''I'm obviously very discouraged.''

In releasing the details, the NHL confirmed the offer was for six years with a mutual option for a seventh. The plan includes a 50-50 split in hockey-related revenue, which is a step forward. The NHL had proposed in July to cut the percentage of HRR from 57 percent to 43, then increased its offer in September to about 47.

Management included a provision to ensure players receive all money promised in existing contracts, but the union is concerned with what management termed the ''make-whole provision.'' If the players' share falls short of their $1.883 billion in 2011-12, the players would be paid up to $149 million of deferred compensation in the first year of a new deal and up to $62 million in the second.

However, the union believes that money would be counted against the players' share in later years.

[Godfather]

Crosby is now considering playing in Europe, which is a fairly strong sign the season is probably lost.

So.weak.

[samarchepas]

Crosby is now considering playing in Europe, which is a fairly strong sign the season is probably lost.

So.weak.

If you ask me...the more star players that go elsewhere...the faster the new CBA will get signed.
Do you think Mario Lemieux likes the idea of having Crosby/Malkin injured in Europe? Hell no!
BTW even if Crosby goes there...it pretty much means nothing really :lol:
They all have "out" clauses in their contracts, once the Lock-out is over, they get back here. (Even if the Lock-out ends the next day that the contract was signed)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By IRA PODELL (AP Sports Writer) | The Associated Press


NEW YORK (AP) -- The little hope that existed for a full NHL season appears to be gone.

Shortly after the players' reached out to the league on Tuesday night to restart stalled labor negotiations, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly rebuffed the union's attempt.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman said last week, in presenting the league's most recent offer to the players, that if a new collective bargaining agreement wasn't reached by this Thursday, it would be impossible for a full regular-season schedule to be played.

No talks have been scheduled, and no last-minute discussions seem to be on tap.

''I don't anticipate any taking place for the balance of the week,'' Daly said in an email to The Associated Press on Tuesday night. ''The union has rejected the proposal we made last Tuesday and is not offering another one. We see nothing to be gained at this point by meeting just to meet.''

Following a call for the union's executive board Tuesday night, the players' association informed the NHL it is willing to meet on Wednesday ''or any other date, without preconditions, to try to reach an agreement,'' the players' association said in a statement.

The NHL's response wasn't what the union had hoped to hear.

The sides haven't met since the league turned down three counterproposals from the union on Thursday, two days after the NHL's offer that included a 50-50 split of hockey-related revenue. Because the players' association hasn't shown an inclination to negotiate off of that NHL proposal, a stalemate now exists and could last for a while.

''The league is apparently unwilling to meet,'' NHLPA special counsel Steve Fehr said in a statement. ''That is unfortunate as it is hard to make progress without talking.''

The developments on Tuesday night came hours after more discourse between the sides on the 38th day of the league's lockout.

While negotiators for the NHL and union kept conversations to a minimum, club officials had a brief window last week to discuss the league's latest proposal.

Those secretive discussions haven't produced any breakthrough, but they have inflamed an already unsettled atmosphere. The union hierarchy wasn't informed about the window then, and isn't happy about it.

''Most owners are not allowed to attend bargaining meetings,'' Fehr said earlier Tuesday. ''No owners are allowed to speak to the media about the bargaining. It is interesting that they are secretly unleashed to talk to the players about the meetings the players can attend, but the owners cannot.''

The NHL said Tuesday that team officials were able to have temporary contact with players, although there were parameters regarding what could be discussed.

''From our perspective, this is a nonissue and a nonstory,'' Daly said Tuesday in an email to The Associated Press. ''There is nothing - legally or otherwise - that precludes club personnel from communicating with their players.''

But, more important, is the fact that NHL officials aren't haven't productive talks with union leaders. Now it seems that a full season, starting on Nov. 2, won't take place.

As of now, the league has called off all games through Nov. 1. Without a deal this week, those games are in danger of being called off for good.

Last week, the NHL's most recent contract offer was presented to the union and then publicly released in full. The union returned to the bargaining table last Thursday with its various counterproposals, that would also get to an even split of hockey revenue, but each was quickly rejected by the league.

There is a major divide between the sides over how to deal with existing player contracts. The union wants to ensure that those are all paid in full without affecting future player contracts.

No negotiations have taken place since last week, but the sides held two conference calls over the weekend to address questions the union had regarding the NHL offer.

After the NHL released it on Wednesday, club officials were given until Friday to speak to players and answer questions they might have about the proposal.

In an internal league memo obtained by The Canadian Press, the NHL stated that those discussions must be limited to the contents of the proposal on the table. It also provided examples of questions that shouldn't be asked of players and noted that straying from the rules could ''cause serious legal problems.''

''You may not ask (a player) what he or others have in mind,'' the memo stated. ''If he volunteers what he has in mind you should not respond positively or negatively or ask any questions but instead refer him to the NHLPA.

''Likewise, you may not suggest hypothetical proposals that the league might make in the future or that the league might entertain from the union.''

This was the first time club officials were permitted by the NHL to talk to players since the lockout took effect Sept. 16.

[DemonGeminiX]

Thank God for football and baseball.

:thumbsup:

[samarchepas]

Thank God for football and baseball.

:thumbsup:

You won't say that in a month or two :lol:....:(

[Richard Cranium]

Strong rumor that the NY Islanders will announce this afternoon that they will be moving to Brooklyn for 2013/14.

[samarchepas]

Strong rumor that the NY Islanders will announce this afternoon that they will be moving to Brooklyn for 2013/14.

I believe the announcement is done already.
I don't buy it honestly though...14500 seats ain't much far a professional sport league.
Probably the league's way to get a deal for another arena (It would be in 2014-2015 not in 2013-2014, when their lease expires at Nassau Coliseum )

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Strong rumor that the NY Islanders will announce this afternoon that they will be moving to Brooklyn for 2013/14.

To do what? Play Jai Alai? Sure as hell isn't any hockey happening in the foreseeable future :-k

[Richard Cranium]

yep, 20014/15, prolly in time for the next game they will actually play.


The New York Islanders are set to announce that they will be moving to the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York when their lease expires at Nassau Coliseum after the 2014-15 season.

The team has called a news conference for this afternoon at the new arena, which will be home to the NBA's Brooklyn Nets this season.

The news conference will be attended by Islanders owner Charles Wang and general manager Garth Snow, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg among others.

Wang has been lobbying for a new arena for his team for several years. The Nassau Coliseum has been home to the team since it was built in 1972.

Wang has been frustrated in his attempts to find a new location in recent years. Last summer, his proposal to build a new arena and keep the Islanders on Long Island was voted down in a referendum by local residents.

[DemonGeminiX]

General Manager Garth Snow? So he sucks at being a manager as well (or even more) as sucking at goaltending.

[samarchepas]

General Manager Garth Snow? So he sucks at being a manager as well (or even more) as sucking at goaltending.
There is nothing done right in the organisation itself to begin with :lol: (except for Tavares)
Dipietro with his 15 years contract...spent most of it on the IR and they are still paying for Yashin for the next 3 years.

[Richard Cranium]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/59404_351522581606241_289919162_n.jpg

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Saw this on a message board discussing the lockout:


Toronto fans are loving it though.

Unbeaten season!

Probably still won't make the playoffs...

:lmao:

[Godfather]

:rofl:

[MrsM]

Saw this on a message board discussing the lockout:



:lmao:

:slap: Shush you!

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:nana:

[MrsM]

:sad2: just because it's true, doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:sad2: just because it's true, doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt

There's always the Argos :empathy:

[FBD]

I always love a good goalie fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQIbI4vbQI0&feature=player_embedded#!

[Teh One Who Knocks]

The Associated Press


http://i.imgur.com/KIw0w.gif

TORONTO (AP) -- Negotiations had already hit a wall in the ongoing hockey labor fight, and now the NHL has suggested the sides take an official two-week break before getting back to the bargaining table.

NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman floated the idea of a break to players' association executive director Donald Fehr. The union hasn't responded to the league yet, but the players maintained their position on Thursday night that they are ready and willing to meet at any time, and the only way to reach a deal to end the long lockout is to keep talking and negotiating.

''Gary suggested the possibility of a two-week moratorium,'' NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly wrote in an email to The Associated Press on Thursday night. ''I'm disappointed because we don't have a negotiating partner that has any genuine interest in reaching an agreement. Zero interest.''

The suggestion of a break was first reported by The Canadian Press on Thursday night.

With no new negotiations scheduled, and communication in general shutting down, the NHL appears to be getting closer to calling off more games, putting the entire hockey season in jeopardy.

''I hope not, but I'm more discouraged now than I have been at any point in the process,'' Daly said. ''I responded to Don saying he did not know how to proceed from here.''

The players' association wants to keep the bargaining going, despite how frustrating recent sessions have been.

''Of course everyone on the players' side wants to reach an agreement,'' union special counsel Steve Fehr said in a statement Thursday night. ''The players have offered the owners concessions worth about a billion dollars. What exactly have the owners offered the players? We believe that it is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't. So we are ready to meet.

''If indeed they do not want to meet, it will be at least the third time in the last three months that they have shut down the dialogue, saying they will not meet unless the players meet their preconditions. What does that tell you about their interest in resolving this?''

The sides put on a push to make an agreement last week when they met over six consecutive days in New York. However, Friday's session ended with a heated exchange, and talks lasted only about an hour on Sunday.

The 61-day lockout has already claimed 327 regular-season games, including the New Year's Day outdoor Winter Classic, and more could be wiped out within a week. It is believed that an agreement would need to be in place by the end of next week for the season to get under way on Dec. 1.

That is starting to look unlikely because of the mere fact that the sides are unable to find common ground on the big issues keeping them apart. It is more than just finances preventing a deal. The disagreements over player contract terms have emerged as just big an impasse.

The NHL wants to limit contracts to five years, make rules to prohibit back-diving contracts the league feels circumvent the salary cap, keep players ineligible for unrestricted free agency until they are 28 or have eight years of professional service time, cut entry-level deals to two years, and make salary arbitration after five years.

A few hours into last Friday's session, negotiations broke down over the core economic differences that separate the sides.

A lockout wiped out the entire 2004-05 season.

[DemonGeminiX]

http://i.imgur.com/5uagM.jpg

[deebakes]

they would never be able to bring a box of waffles into a hockey arena in the us :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

I'm not really sure I understand the significance of the waffles. I know it was attached to a certain player that isn't the one in the gif, but I don't know why.

Maybe GF or Sam can explain it.

[samarchepas]

they would never be able to bring a box of waffles into a hockey arena in the us :lol:

So they make bombs with waffles nowadays? :lol: (Don't see the harm there...as long as they check that they have nothing else in there)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47knIsGbWu8
Found where it all came from :lol:

[deebakes]

you must live in canada :lol:

[Godfather]

I'm not really sure I understand the significance of the waffles. I know it was attached to a certain player that isn't the one in the gif, but I don't know why.

Maybe GF or Sam can explain it.

I think the Leafs gave away free waffles at a game and the fans got pissed at their shitty home team and threw them on the ice :lol: Then the fans got reprimanded for doing something 'extremely dangerous' and it just became a big joke. I think they have tried to charge some of them, and Colby Armstrong went and cried about how his feelings were hurt by waffles to the press.....

[MrsM]

I think the Leafs gave away free waffles at a game and the fans got pissed at their shitty home team and threw them on the ice :lol: Then the fans got reprimanded for doing something 'extremely dangerous' and it just became a big joke. I think they have tried to charge some of them, and Colby Armstrong went and cried about how his feelings were hurt by waffles to the press.....

I don't think it was free waffles - the guy just had some on him.

[Godfather]

I fuggin' love BP

http://i47.tinypic.com/essztz.jpg

[samarchepas]

I fuggin' love BP



An easy way to get publicity in Canada :lol:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

NHL cancels all games through Jan. 14

[DemonGeminiX]

:-k

What's this NHL thing you guys keep talking about?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

The No Hockey League :)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

If I had to make a guess, based on when they canceled the season during the last lockout, they NHLPA has about 2 to 3 weeks to agree to what the owners want or else the entire season will be lost.

Sad that the players are going to let the NHL get marginalized even more so than it already is compared to the other big North American sports leagues. When the NHL came back with that last best offer of a near 50-50 split and the players turned it down, it made them look like money-grubbing assholes and a lot of fans aren't going to forget that.

[samarchepas]

If I had to make a guess, based on when they canceled the season during the last lockout, they NHLPA has about 2 to 3 weeks to agree to what the owners want or else the entire season will be lost.

Sad that the players are going to let the NHL get marginalized even more so than it already is compared to the other big North American sports leagues. When the NHL came back with that last best offer of a near 50-50 split and the players turned it down, it made them look like money-grubbing assholes and a lot of fans aren't going to forget that.

At this point...fans don't give a damn on who "wins" this :wha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=63XfqP_E1AI

[Godfather]

I don't even see them as distinct sides anymore :lol: this is just a bunch of suit bullshit

At least the world juniors and Spengler cup are on right now...

[samarchepas]

I don't even see them as distinct sides anymore :lol: this is just a bunch of suit bullshit

At least the world juniors and Spengler cup are on right now...

The problem with the world juniors...The crazy (for most of us) timezone :lol: (For example: The game this morning, Canada vs Germany started at 5:30 AM for me...)

[Godfather]

Pvr! TSN is even covering up scores in their site like spoiler alerts which is pretty cool. So as long as some asshole doesn't spill the beans we're good :lol: I'm going to stay up for the US game tonight

[samarchepas]

Pvr! TSN is even covering up scores in their site like spoiler alerts which is pretty cool. So as long as some asshole doesn't spill the beans we're good :lol: I'm going to stay up for the US game tonight

I will TRY to stay up tonight (Which will likely fail...5:30 AM)
I'd probably be the asshole myself...I'm curious by nature, I'd still get the score before seeing the game...which sucks :lol:

[samarchepas]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/JLpics/NHL-LOL_zps9a7fa60b.png

[Godfather]

Game time :dance:

[Godfather]

Yikes Canada got SMOKED by the US :lol: I guess the good thing is that nobody was too invested because the tournament was in the middle of the night

[DemonGeminiX]

:-k

The US played a hockey game?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

By IRA PODELL (AP Sports Writer) | The Associated Press


NEW YORK (AP) -- After a long night of talks, the NHL and the union are returning to negotiations - just later than expected.

The sides were supposed to meet at the league office Thursday at 10 a.m. EST. That, however, did not happen. The Players Association said it was updating its members on negotiations.

Players and union staff began arriving at NHL headquarters a little before a 1 p.m., although union head Donald Fehr was not part of the group.

With the lockout in its 110th day, both sides understand the urgency to save a shortened season. They have moved closer to one another while swapping proposals, but key issues remain - pensions and salary cap, among them.

Commissioner Gary Bettman has said that the league told the union a deal needs to be in place by next week so a 48-game season can begin Jan. 19. All games through Jan. 14 along with the All-Star game have been canceled, claiming more than 50 percent of the original schedule.

The sides met in small groups throughout the day Wednesday. They then held a full bargaining session with a federal mediator at night that lasted nearly five hours and didn't wrap up until about 1 a.m. Thursday.

The biggest detail to emerge from those talks was that Fehr is still the executive director of the players' association, which passed on its first chance to declare a disclaimer that would dissolve the union and turn it into a trade association.

Last month, players voted overwhelmingly to give its executive board the right to declare the disclaimer, but that permission expired at midnight Wednesday. The disclaimer would allow individual players to file antitrust lawsuits against the NHL. Fehr wouldn't address the issue, calling it an ''internal matter.''

''The word disclaimer has yet to be uttered to us by the players' association,'' Bettman said. ''It's not that it gets filed anywhere with a court or the NLRB. When you disclaim interest as a union, you notify the other side. We have not been notified and it's never been discussed, so there has been no disclaimer.''

The thought was that the union wouldn't take action Wednesday if it saw progress was being made. Neither side would characterize the talks or address what, if any, movement toward common ground was reached.

''There's been some progress but we're still apart on a number of issues,'' Bettman said. ''As long as the process continues I am hopeful.''

A deal can't be done without a resolution on pensions. Bettman called the pension plan a ''very complicated issue.'' A small group meeting on the pension issue was held Wednesday morning before the players' association presented its offer.

''The number of variables and the number of issues that have to be addressed by people who carry the title actuary or pension lawyer are pretty numerous and it's pretty easy to get off track. That is something we understand is important to the players.''

The union's proposal Wednesday makes four offers between the sides since the NHL restarted negotiations Thursday with a proposal. The league presented the players with a counteroffer Tuesday night in response to one the union made Monday.

Fehr believed an agreement on a players-funded pension had been reached before talks blew up in early December. That apparently wasn't the case, or the NHL has changed its offer regarding the pension in exchange for agreeing to other things the union wanted.

The salary-cap number for the second year of the deal - the 2013-14 season - hasn't been established, and it is another point of contention. The league is pushing for a $60 million cap, while the union wants it to be $65 million.

In return for the higher cap number players would be willing to forgo a cap on escrow.

''We talk about lots of things and we even had some philosophical discussions about why particular issues were important to each of us,'' Bettman said. ''That is part of the process.''

The NHL proposed in its first offer Thursday that pension contributions come out of the players' share of revenues, and $50 million of the league's make-whole payment of $300 million will be allocated and set aside to fund potential underfunding liabilities of the plan at the end of the collective bargaining agreement.

Last month, the NHL agreed to raise its make-whole offer of deferred payments from $211 million to $300 million as part of a proposed package that required the union to agree on three nonnegotiable points. Instead, the union accepted the raise in funds, but then made counterproposals on the issues the league stated had no wiggle room.

''As you might expect, the differences between us relate to the core economic issues which don't involve the share,'' Fehr said of hockey-related revenue, which likely will be split 50-50.

The NHL is the only North American professional sports league to cancel a season because of a labor dispute, losing the 2004-05 campaign to a lockout. A 48-game season was played in 1995 after a lockout stretched into January.

[FBD]

what's the fkn deal here? I havent been really following this. All I see is "Union" and "problems"...I'm sure the owners are unrealistic in their own regard, but usually this pension shit we get unions wanting defined benefits when that shit is just no longer realistic anymore.

[Godfather]

what's the fkn deal here? I havent been really following this. All I see is "Union" and "problems"...I'm sure the owners are unrealistic in their own regard, but usually this pension shit we get unions wanting defined benefits when that shit is just no longer realistic anymore.

That's pretty much the jest of it. Neither side deserves any sympathy, both sides have egomaniacs at the helm, both sides have dug in their heels too hard and pissed the other off. We hear about different 'sticking' points ever other day. Right now it's apparently the Union demanding pension but next week it will be something else they want or the league won't budge an inch on :roll:

[Godfather]

Fuck yes. Hockey is coming back. Lockout is done

[DemonGeminiX]

I guess I should be happy and all, but honestly, I just don't care anymore.

:dunno:

[samarchepas]

I guess I should be happy and all, but honestly, I just don't care anymore.

:dunno:

Its always different in Canada when it comes to hockey (I stayed up until 6:11 AM...when the deal was announced :lol: )
Here, fans who are like you and don't care about it, WILL come back (Or most of them)...can't say the same for "Non-hockey markets"

[Teh One Who Knocks]

I guess I should be happy and all, but honestly, I just don't care anymore.

:dunno:

This times 1000

Fuck them

[Godfather]

I really want to boycott and not care... I just love the game too much and the NHL can't be matched. So I'm happy. At least there should be 10 years to repair the relationship with the fans again... Maybe some fans like lance and DGX will never come back but the sport is growing like crazy in the US. It will be survive this I think

[DemonGeminiX]

Guys, I grew up on hockey. I grew up idolizing the Flyers. It's not a matter of markets, it's a matter of seeing a bunch of grown men acting worse than spoiled 3 year olds. It's left a bad taste in my mouth. I have no sympathy for these guys. I would rather waste my time watching all the minor league guys who do it for the love.

I will more than likely go back to watching it, but every time I see a game, instead of seeing a bunch of hard asses on the ice, all I'm gonna see are a bunch of grown men in diapers with pacifiers in their mouths.

[Richard Cranium]

Sad news to report.. the Toronto Maple Leafs have just been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

[DemonGeminiX]

Now that's funny.

:lol:

[Godfather]

Sad news to report.. the Toronto Maple Leafs have just been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

This just in. Rick DiPietro has torn a rotater cuff in a high five celebrating the end of the lockout and will miss the entire season.

[Godfather]

Watch this be the first and last year the Canucks win the Cup, and it will have a big fat asterix beside it for being a short season :lol:

[RBP]

So what's the deal then.. when do they start? are they really going to play a 3-month season and think that's enough?

[Godfather]

So what's the deal then.. when do they start? are they really going to play a 3-month season and think that's enough?

I guess. Sounds like either 48 or 50 games starting on either January 15 or 11. It will be a weird season. One losing streak of five or six games and a solid team could miss the playoffs.

I'm too young to remember the last shortened season, maybe one of the older fans can tell us what is more unique about playing that few games?

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Guys, I grew up on hockey. I grew up idolizing the Flyers. It's not a matter of markets, it's a matter of seeing a bunch of grown men acting worse than spoiled 3 year olds. It's left a bad taste in my mouth. I have no sympathy for these guys. I would rather waste my time watching all the minor league guys who do it for the love.

I will more than likely go back to watching it, but every time I see a game, instead of seeing a bunch of hard asses on the ice, all I'm gonna see are a bunch of grown men in diapers with pacifiers in their mouths.

So much this...I was born in Boston, lived in Massachusetts for many years, and spent the first half of my life in New England. I used to bleed Black and Gold every hockey season. Ray Bourque was my idol when I was growing up.

Now I'm with DGX 100% on this one. Screw them and their greedy fucking selves.

[Godfather]

I definitely get where you guys are coming from. They've offended the shit out of me too. This lockout was utterly ridiculous, went on far too long and the end result did nothing to help the game or improve things for fans. I've got a lot of friends on facebook saying they'll boycott or at least spend no money on the NHL. I can see not spending a dime on the NHL this year, I usually only go to games when I get given tickets anyways.

I just cant realistically not see myself coming home from work on a rainy weeknight and not watching the games. What can I say, I'm the exact sucker the league thinks I am :lol:

[MrsM]

Sad news to report.. the Toronto Maple Leafs have just been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

:slap:

[Richard Cranium]

admit it.. you smiled before you called me a mother fucker..:nana:

[MrsM]

admit it.. you smiled before you called me a mother fucker..:nana:

maybe a little - but you still deserve a :slap:

[Godfather]

http://i49.tinypic.com/2mfbqrs.jpg

[RBP]

So I am lazy and cba to look up the details, when do they start playing and how long will the season be?

[Godfather]

So I am lazy and cba to look up the details, when do they start playing and how long will the season be?

We're not 100% sure yet. Sounds like 48 games starting on Saturday January 19 though. Not sure how far they'll push back the playoffs but it will be a tight schedule.

[RBP]

We're not 100% sure yet. Sounds like 48 games starting on Saturday January 19 though. Not sure how far they'll push back the playoffs but it will be a tight schedule.

so a bit more than a 1/2 season... interesting...

[samarchepas]

We're not 100% sure yet. Sounds like 48 games starting on Saturday January 19 though. Not sure how far they'll push back the playoffs but it will be a tight schedule.

Yup, and teams are getting ready to start training camp this Saturday (7 days training camp)
One thing for sure...expect a LOT of injuries this season :lol: (Especially earlier in the seaon)
When half of your roster didn't play a hockey in since April (if they didn't make it to the playoffs)...things could become ugly :lol:
BTW we should have a lot more details regarding the CBA around tomorrow.

[RBP]

Yup, and teams are getting ready to start training camp this Saturday (7 days training camp)
One thing for sure...expect a LOT of injuries this season :lol: (Especially earlier in the seaon)
When half of your roster didn't play a hockey in since April (if they didn't make it to the playoffs)...things could become ugly :lol:
BTW we should have a lot more details regarding the CBA around tomorrow.

That's a great point. I would assume they have been training but have they skated?

[samarchepas]

That's a great point. I would assume they have been training but have they skated?

They probably have BUT skating without contact...not the same thing as a real game! :lol: No Zdeno Chara to try to behead you :lol: (Or any players that like to hit others...only took him for example)

[RBP]

They probably have BUT skating without contact...not the same thing as a real game! :lol: No Zdeno Chara to try to behead you :lol: (Or any players that like to hit others...only took him for example)

I can't remember... :-k Who's the cheapshot artist that played for Vancouver but moved last season... same guy?

He always played cheap against the Blackhawks... hate that guy.

[RBP]

Raffi Torres is who I was thinking of. :x

Hate that guy.

[samarchepas]

I can't remember... :-k Who's the cheapshot artist that played for Vancouver but moved last season... same guy?

He always played cheap against the Blackhawks... hate that guy.
Let me guess...Raffi Torres? :lol:
EDIT: beat me by a second :lol:

[RBP]

Let me guess...Raffi Torres? :lol:

Bingo!! :x

[samarchepas]

Oh BTW: Teams will be able to buyout 2 contracts without having it to count on the salary cap (One this summer and one next year)
Can't wait to get rid of Gomez...:lol:
Next year's cap will be 64.3M$ and 70M$ for this year.

[Godfather]

Have you read up on the Cap Circumvention shit they've got in place? If you trade away a guy you signed to over 7 years and he retires early, his salary comes back and affects your cap hit after he retires :lol: Crazy shit

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/luongo-rule-nhl-cba-punish-cap-circumventing-contracts-153717517--nhl.html

[Godfather]

http://i48.tinypic.com/9glsld.jpg

That's hilarious :lol: The Cowboys twitter feed got owned by the Stars

[Godfather]

:lol: Tweet between Coyotes goon Paul Bissonnette and Rangers goalie Henrik Lundqvist

http://i49.tinypic.com/2qimfxd.jpg

[samarchepas]

http://i48.tinypic.com/9glsld.jpg

That's hilarious :lol: The Cowboys twitter feed got owned by the Stars

I LOL'ed when that came out :lol: (Ownage at it's finest)
Habs vs Leafs on the 19th!!! (No pre-season games for anyone...could be BAD :lol: )

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:yawn:

[samarchepas]

According to Bob McKenzie on TSN: Toronto Maple Leafs have apparently fired Brian Burke as general manager. :shock:

[MrsM]

According to Bob McKenzie on TSN: Toronto Maple Leafs have apparently fired Brian Burke as general manager. :shock:

I haven't heard anything about that yet :shock:

[samarchepas]

I haven't heard anything about that yet :shock:
Weirdest thing here...the season starts in 10 day against the Habs for them...worst timing to fire a GM.
Dave Nonis gets the job

[Godfather]

They hired Dave Nonis :rofl: That team has a death wish...

[DemonGeminiX]

According to Bob McKenzie on TSN: Toronto Maple Leafs have apparently fired Brian Burke as general manager. :shock:

:-k

What did Doug McKenzie say?

[samarchepas]

They hired Dave Nonis :rofl: That team has a death wish...

Rumors about Lou going to Toronto were strong...and they just got even stronger since this happened :lol:
Some rumors send him in Philly...time will tell I guess (Nothing can be official until the players vote for the CBA)
Just don't expect the moon in return for him though :lol:

[Godfather]

Yeah from what I've read, Burke wouldn't sign off on a trade of Luongo for Gardiner & Kadri, according to Bob McCowan


Man I'd be happy to get any top forward from the Flyers and we need a 2nd line center pretty badly. :lol: But I guess they'd have to do something with crazy old Briz

[samarchepas]

Yeah from what I've read, Burke wouldn't sign off on a trade of Luongo for Gardiner & Kadri, according to Bob McCowan


Man I'd be happy to get any top forward from the Flyers and we need a 2nd line center pretty badly. :lol: But I guess they'd have to do something with crazy old Briz

Easy enough...with Pronger out, he will go on the LTIR (Out of the cap) They keep both for the year and then keep the best and buyout the other with the Amnesty buyout this summer.

[Godfather]

Easy enough...with Pronger out, he will go on the LTIR (Out of the cap) They keep both for the year and then keep the best and buyout the other with the Amnesty buyout this summer.

It's an option. It's an option for the Canucks too... I just hope they don't do it. Holding on to Luongo if he flops around and has a shitty season as a back-up goalie is very risky. We could suddenly end up getting nothing for him :wha:

[samarchepas]

It's an option. It's an option for the Canucks too... I just hope they don't do it. Holding on to Luongo if he flops around and has a shitty season as a back-up goalie is very risky. We could suddenly end up getting nothing for him :wha:

I can't see Luongo being at the camp in a few days...too much distraction for nothing. The Canucks whats him out (He feels the same) BUT they won't let him go for nothing.
We had the PERFECT example of that in Montréal (Patrick Roy!!!) They traded him in a hurry and got next to nothing when they could have gotten a LOT more in return if they would have waited a bit instead of panicking with it. The guy won the Olympic Gold in 2010...still has a good value in the league.

[Godfather]

I can't see Luongo being at the camp in a few days...too much distraction for nothing. The Canucks whats him out (He feels the same) BUT they won't let him go for nothing.
We had the PERFECT example of that in Montréal (Patrick Roy!!!) They traded him in a hurry and got next to nothing when they could have gotten a LOT more in return if they would have waited a bit instead of panicking with it. The guy won the Olympic Gold in 2010...still has a good value in the league.

I have LONG used that same example of trading Roy, to people who rip on Luongo. Cory Schneider could be a super star, or he might not be able to handle the role of a starting goalie. We can't be certain yet. Meanwhile, Luongo might leave us and win somewhere. After watching both goalies for a few years, I suspect that won't happen - that Schneider will be good and Luongo will decline. But who knows :lol:

I will say that it seems the relationship between Luongo and Schneider is actually quite close apparently. They're professionals and have long stated that riffs and distractions are fabricated by the media. If Luongo has to come and play here, it will be ok. I'd be surprised if he's not at camp on Sunday unless a trade is done.

[samarchepas]

I have LONG used that same example of trading Roy, to people who rip on Luongo. Cory Schneider could be a super star, or he might not be able to handle the role of a starting goalie. We can't be certain yet. Meanwhile, Luongo might leave us and win somewhere. After watching both goalies for a few years, I suspect that won't happen - that Schneider will be good and Luongo will decline. But who knows :lol:

I will say that it seems the relationship between Luongo and Schneider is actually quite close apparently. They're professionals and have long stated that riffs and distractions are fabricated by the media. If Luongo has to come and play here, it will be ok. I'd be surprised if he's not at camp on Sunday unless a trade is done.
Yup, The medias did the EXACT in Montréal, giving Halak the status a god among men :lol:
There was no bad blood between Price and Halak (Same as in Vancouver) just 2 guys that wanted the number 1 spot
One thing that the Canucks MUST do after Lou is gone (Assuming that it does happen) is get a veteran goalie to help the kid...or you are stuck like in Toronto with 2 young goalies with no real experience in the league.

[Godfather]

Yeah I agree... some are talking about bringing up Eddie Lack as he could be another superstar goalie in the Canuck's system, but he has been underwhelming this year and it would be a foolish mistake for him to ride the pine most of the season as opposed to playing full time in the AHL.

Anyways... what's the story with the Habs this year? They going to make the playoffs you think?

[samarchepas]

Yeah I agree... some are talking about bringing up Eddie Lack as he could be another superstar goalie in the Canuck's system, but he has been underwhelming this year and it would be a foolish mistake for him to ride the pine most of the season as opposed to playing full time in the AHL.

Anyways... what's the story with the Habs this year? They going to make the playoffs you think?
Maybe...:lol: (Lots of "Ifs")
Toughness is better but the 2nd line is still a HUGE concern there (Most of the goals came from the first line last year...that caused them to finish 15th)
EVERYTHING that could have gone bad last year did, its the first time in my life that I've seen a player getting traded BETWEEN 2 PERIODS!!! :lol: (Cammalleri)
Most of the roster was injured during the season at some point, one of the assistant coach was fired and the same happened to the head coach like 2 months later
Pretty much the entire personal in the head office is gone now (GM,Assistant GM,Coach etc) the only survivors are Trevor Timmins (director of amateur scouting) and the goalies coach
So really, nobody knows for sure what will happen there :lol: Bergevin is the GM of the team but he has not seen his team play a game once. The only great thing that came out of that nightmarish season is Alex Galchenyuk (Habs drafted him 3rd overall and he is doing GREAT with his junior team...I hope the team gives him a few games in the league this year, they can give him 5 games until it counts as a full year on his contract.)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

:bored:

[samarchepas]

:bored:

You try to act like you don't care about the NHL but really, if you do visit this thread...YOU DO care! :lol
Most fans are pissed off right now and as much as I WANT to ignore it...I just can't! :lol:

[DemonGeminiX]

Boycott the Flyers? Some fans are planning on it.

by Sarah Baicker of csnphilly.com

Let’s be honest. Right now, the stereotype of the average committed hockey fan is that of a sucker.

The NHL lockout lasted an absurd 113 days. Supporters of the sport felt frustrated and taken advantage of by both the league and its players. But all along, even in fan circles, the thinking has been: They’ll be back. They returned after the lockout of 1994-95. They came back after an entire season was lost in 2004-05. They’ll be back this time, too.

They’re certainly a minority, but a sizable contingent of Flyers fans says that’s not the case. At least, not right away. Otherwise, what’s to say we won’t be back in this situation a few years from now?

“I'm boycotting the rest of the season and playoffs,” said Karen Kemmerer of Andreas, Pa. “No tickets, no jerseys, no T-shirts, no hats, no Center Ice ... nothing. I will watch whatever is available on my regular TV package, but no extras.

“I love everything about hockey, but the only way I get to cast my vote is with my wallet, and I plan on doing just that. Perhaps if enough of us do it, they'll all think twice eight years from now.”

Said Flyers fan Eric Bowman of Lancaster, Pa.: “I would applaud to see an empty arena for one game around the league to prove a point that fans matter.”

It won’t happen, but Bowman is far from alone in finding joy in the idea of an empty NHL arena on opening day. There’s even an online campaign encouraging fans to boycott one game for every game that was lost after Dec. 21, 2012: Just Drop It.

“I joined Just Drop It and will be skipping 10 games,” said Michael Oldroyd of Mays Landing, N.J. “No tickets, no merchandise, no TV, nothing. I hate it so much, but they need to know how wrong this was. Owners and players come and go. We are fans of our teams for life.

“Just because it's impossible for the fans to organize as an entire group, they should still respect us as a partner in their ‘business.’ They need to hear how much this affects our lives as hockey fans. I am still mad. I will not be watching.”

As of Thursday afternoon, the Just Drop It Facebook page had more than 23,000 likes.

A few other members of the Just Drop It movement said they planned to spend money only on non-NHL games and will only watch the Flyers on television. Based on the more than 100 messages CSNPhilly.com received regarding the issue, that seems like a popular method for fans who wish to express their displeasure without ignoring the entire season.

“I plan to watch the NHL on ‘free’ TV, like NBC and CSN, but I will not pay to attend a game or buy any NHL merchandise during the shortened season,” said John Saquella of Cape May, N.J. “I feel the lockout was unnecessary, and looking at the final agreement (or what has leaked out) I feel even more strongly about that.”

Some fans who still plan to attend games – whether because they’d already purchased tickets or not – have found a way to express their displeasure without losing out on the sport or sacrificing money: avoiding the concession stands at the Wells Fargo Center.

“At least for this season I won't be buying any food or merch at the games, and I normally spend a few thousand a year on jerseys, hats, sweatshirts, pins, etc.,” said Marty Crennan of Philadelphia.

The same goes for Micah Goldsberry, also of Philadelphia, a Flyers season ticket holder.

“[We] won’t be buying any merchandise or concessions, and will make an effort to let the NHL/Flyers organization know how we feel about the lockout,” he said.

Lest you think the fans who say they plan to hold onto money they would have spent on hockey if not for the lockout are making empty threats, some have already taken action.

“I was a Flyers season ticket holder until the beginning of December,” said Denis Glavin of Media, Pa. “Once the first round of players/owners only meetings failed, I was done. I cancelled my tickets with the Flyers, and vowed that I would not spend a single cent on any tickets or merchandise that the NHL can collect revenue on.

“To this day, I have successfully followed through with this, and have yet to spend any money on NHL products, and don't plan on it either.”

There are plenty of others. E-mails rolled in to CSNPhilly about boyfriends refusing to buy jerseys for their girlfriends for Christmas; about ticket-holders who planned to eat and drink only in the parking lot before games; about fans from across the country who won't buy GameCenter LIVE and won't shell out the money to see the Flyers play in their home arenas.

These are true fans – dedicated, lifelong fans of the sport. But their faith in hockey's leadership is gone. Perhaps Jim Corso of Levittown, Pa., said it best.

“Why am I going to waste my money with that when they take the sport away every eight years?”

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-philadelphia-flyers/flyers-talk/Boycott-the-Flyers-Some-fans-are-plannin?blockID=822075&feedID=695

[Teh One Who Knocks]

You try to act like you don't care about the NHL but really, if you do visit this thread...YOU DO care! :lol
Most fans are pissed off right now and as much as I WANT to ignore it...I just can't! :lol:

If you haven't noticed, I kinda post everywhere....kinda goes along with running the site and making sure there's nothing naughty going on ;)

That said, I couldn't care less about the NHL this season if I tried.

[Godfather]

Oilers looked pretty good last night. They definitely have a shot at the playoffs. And the Canucks could definitely miss them :lol:

[RBP]

Blackhawks score 11 goals in 2-0 start

[samarchepas]

Oilers looked pretty good last night. They definitely have a shot at the playoffs. And the Canucks could definitely miss them :lol:

I guess the whole "Lou to Toronto" is on hold, huh? :lol:
I think Schneider will be great soon BUT he doesn't have enough experience yet.

[RBP]

Blackhawks v Canuckleheads tonight :cheerlead:

[Godfather]

Pretty good game... the Luongo plot thickens :lol:

Trade Schneider 8-[

[deebakes]

is it still preseason? :-k

[samarchepas]

is it still preseason? :-k

No such thing as a preseason this year :lol: (Habs are now 5-2...beat the Sabres 6-1 this afternoon, got to LOVE the Prust Galchenyuk Gallagher line!!)

[RBP]

:dunno: I don't know what this means... it this a good prize to win in Vancouver? :-k

http://i.imgur.com/LBV8Vxq.jpg

[samarchepas]

:dunno: I don't know what this means... it this a good prize to win in Vancouver? :-k


He was born in Burnaby, BC (East of Vancouver)
I can see why it would be a good prize to win there even if he didn't play for the Canucks or the Giants

[Godfather]

:dunno: I don't know what this means... it this a good prize to win in Vancouver? :-k

http://i.imgur.com/LBV8Vxq.jpg

Yeah, like Sam said, he's a local boy from Burnaby (Vancouver suburb) so people love 'Burnaby' Joe even though he never played pro hockey for Vancouver. They got him to come to a game in honor his Hall of Fame induction and gave away 119 (he wore 19) chances to meet and greet the guy as part of the festivities. I should have gone, tickets were cheap.

[RBP]

Oh I missed Sam's reply... thanks for the info guys!

[Teh One Who Knocks]

is it still preseason? :-k

Is this lacrosse? :-k

[samarchepas]

Tim Thomas traded to the Islanders for a conditional pick...yup...I'm sure he will want to play now...:rofl:

[Shady]

http://i45.tinypic.com/ic3cd3.jpg

[RBP]

:cheerlead:

[samarchepas]

http://i45.tinypic.com/ic3cd3.jpg

His dad is suffering a severe type of amnesia it seems :lol: because they lost twice this season ;)

[RBP]

His dad is suffering a severe type of amnesia it seems :lol: because they lost twice this season ;)


10-0-2 baby...

[Teh One Who Knocks]

10-0-2 baby...

You do realize those are 2 overtime LOSSES? :facepalm:

[RBP]

You do realize those are 2 overtime LOSSES? :facepalm:

Any other team in either conference have zero losses in regulation? Hmmmm?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Suck it, haters!

[Teh One Who Knocks]

You figure math and statistics like Obama :hand:

[RBP]

Even I can count to ZERO.

:dance:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

But you obviously failed at learning to count to two :facepalm:

[RBP]

http://i.imgur.com/bNkvG5z.gif

[DemonGeminiX]

What's this NHL thing again?

:-k

[Teh One Who Knocks]

What's this NHL thing again?

:-k

Something that Canadians and math failures seem to enjoy :dunno:

[samarchepas]

But you obviously failed at learning to count to two :facepalm:

The learning curve from 0 to 2 is quite high for some people ...:lol:
Anyway...the record for most wins in a season: 62...WON'T HAPPEN THIS YEAR!! :lol:

[Godfather]

http://i.imgur.com/bNkvG5z.gif

Blackhawks are UNREAL this year :lol: My favorite hawks shirt is getting me some seriously dirty looks. Except from the ladies :(

[RBP]

The went to OT again tonight... still a zero in the middle column.

You should get this... on the ESPN app you can set it to send notifications, so I get an ESPN tone every time a goal is scored in a Hawks game and at the end of each period. I try to watch when I can, but like tonight, it kept me informed while I was puking on my TV watching the state of the union address.

[Godfather]

I've got that for the Canucks.. it's great.

The Hawks are ridiculously good. It's crazy how they're clicking. You should see the replay of Patrick Sharp's dirty penalty draw tonight though :lol: He grabbed the Duck player's stick and shoved it at himself to get a high-stick cal :rofl: If you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying though.


Shame Lance isn't following this year, Boston is killing the East too. Only once loss. Biggest disappointment of this year so far must be the Flyers. Thought they'd be killing it.

[RBP]

You should see the replay of Patrick Sharp's dirty penalty draw tonight though :lol: He grabbed the Duck player's stick and shoved it at himself to get a high-stick cal :rofl: If you ain't cheatin' you ain't trying though.

I'll look for it... sounds like a good one :tup:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Let's see....let's have a work stoppage that wipes out more than half the season....then what can we do to alienate fans even more? :-k

NHL ticket-price hike surpasses other leagues (http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8945052/nhl-ticket-price-hike-surpasses-other-leagues)

:roll:

[samarchepas]

Let's see....let's have a work stoppage that wipes out more than half the season....then what can we do to alienate fans even more? :-k

NHL ticket-price hike surpasses other leagues (http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8945052/nhl-ticket-price-hike-surpasses-other-leagues)

:roll:
And to make all things better...all you need is a few teams like Phoenix that can't get more than 5000 people at each game...when some tickets are at 4.75$!!!!

[RBP]

Another win! 11-0-3 baby! :cheerlead:

[Teh One Who Knocks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTtTOZu1isE&feature=player_embedded

[RBP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTtTOZu1isE&feature=player_embedded

That's cool. :tup:

=================

oh and 12-0-3 baby! :cheerlead:

[samarchepas]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2hn6u4k.png
:cheerlead: :cheerlead:

[Shady]

13-0-3. One more for record. Also suck it GF.

[DemonGeminiX]

:-k


What record?

[FBD]

And to make all things better...all you need is a few teams like Phoenix that can't get more than 5000 people at each game...when some tickets are at 4.75$!!!!

idiot local government there - glendale has shelled out shitloads upon shitloads of money all because they really want a team, they're so far in the hole its not even funny...but hey, let's have legislators make all sorts of promises with taxpayer money just to get a team in town.

[samarchepas]

idiot local government there - glendale has shelled out shitloads upon shitloads of money all because they really want a team, they're so far in the hole its not even funny...but hey, let's have legislators make all sorts of promises with taxpayer money just to get a team in town.

Worst thing there is that tax payers there DON'T EVEN WANT THE TEAM!!! (Sure they paid a lot of money to get the team...but last time I checked, they are losing on average, 20M$ every SINGLE year!)
The NHL itself ain't better though...They know it won't work but continue trying to get to make money (More than they did for Quebec/Winnipeg when they were moved)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Worst thing there is that tax payers there DON'T EVEN WANT THE TEAM!!! (Sure they paid a lot of money to get the team...but last time I checked, they are losing on average, 20M$ every SINGLE year!)
The NHL itself ain't better though...They know it won't work but continue trying to get to make money (More than they did for Quebec/Winnipeg when they were moved)

And as far as I know, QC wants a team again and I believe the city built/is building a new arena there?

[samarchepas]

And as far as I know, QC wants a team again and I believe the city built/is building a new arena there?

Yup, construction started and it should be done by 2015 (Don't be surprised if they get a team before that, a team could easily survive a few years in the Colisée Pepsi) Markham in Ontario will have it's arena too (It was approved, but I have no idea on the timeline it could take for this one)

[samarchepas]

The Buffalo Sabres have fired coach Lindy Ruff as a result of the team's inconsistent start to the season.

The announcement was made on the team's Twitter account and confirmed by Sabres spokesman Michael Gilbert on Wednesday. Ruff was relieved of his duties shortly after the team held a 90-minute practice, and a day after the Sabres were booed several times by their home fans during a 2-1 loss to the Winnipeg Jets.

The Sabres (6-10-1) have gone 4-10-1 since opening the season winning their first two games.

With a 532-400-151 record, Ruff was the team's winningest coach.

[DemonGeminiX]

:-s

Damn. I thought they'd never get rid of him.

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Yup, construction started and it should be done by 2015 (Don't be surprised if they get a team before that, a team could easily survive a few years in the Colisée Pepsi) Markham in Ontario will have it's arena too (It was approved, but I have no idea on the timeline it could take for this one)

Markham, ONT wants an NHL team? :-s

[samarchepas]

Markham, ONT wants an NHL team? :-s

Yup, and the arena is pretty much step one to get one (Having an "NHL worthy" arena doesn't guarantee an NHL team...but its a good start.)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Yup, and the arena is pretty much step one to get one (Having an "NHL worthy" arena doesn't guarantee an NHL team...but its a good start.)

Never gonna happen, there's already 2 teams in Ontario and Buffalo isn't all that far away. Plus they are far too small to be able to support a team. Yeah, so they get all excited in year one and sell out the arena but then they suck all year and year two rolls around and nobody goes....just what the league needs.

[samarchepas]

Never gonna happen, there's already 2 teams in Ontario and Buffalo isn't all that far away. Plus they are far too small to be able to support a team. Yeah, so they get all excited in year one and sell out the arena but then they suck all year and year two rolls around and nobody goes....just what the league needs.

Don't underestimate the people of Ontario (Look at the Leafs...1967 and people are still going :lol: )

[Teh One Who Knocks]

Don't underestimate the people of Ontario (Look at the Leafs...1967 and people are still going :lol: )

As sucky as the Leafs are, they are still an Original Six, big difference between that and an expansion team ;)

[samarchepas]

As sucky as the Leafs are, they are still an Original Six, big difference between that and an expansion team ;)
They don't have a long term vision (The NHL)...will most likely look at expansions more than moving teams to make profit now (They kept the Coyotes in Phoenix because of the POTENTIAL money they could make at some point...while losing 20M$ every year)

[Teh One Who Knocks]

They don't have a long term vision (The NHL)...will most likely look at expansions more than moving teams to make profit now (They kept the Coyotes in Phoenix because of the POTENTIAL money they could make at some point...while losing 20M$ every year)

Look at what happened here in Denver....we got a very good team when the Nordiques came and they then became a great team with the Roy trade. The team was great for years and years and won 2 Stanley Cups (the first one was the first pro championship for the city of Denver even) and now that the team has been bad for a few years, NOBODY goes to the games. The Avalanche are 27th in attendance this year, 23rd last year, 24th the year before, and 27th the year before that. And that's with some good young talent and 2 Stanley Cups.

An expansion team would fail within 2 years.